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post #51 of 59

7/5/12 at 8:06am

DuckieHo
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Quote:

Originally Posted by unfriend

Sadly, this is our society. The people who damage the economy this way are let off with a slap on the wrists. This "Fine" is simply a joke. If you want to stick with a fine, the fine should be a flat 1 % of the companys TOTAL worth (not just a specific division or branch, but the parent company), with increasing fines doubling the percentage for each subsequent offense in a 3-5 year period of time.

Terrible idea..... If one guy at a company cheated in a division that sold diapers, should an entire company have to pay for it? No.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayleyne

TBH i don't really see the issue with price fixing and monopolies, It's their product, and THEIR market if they can do it, more power to them, We don't ~need~ computers and lcd screens, they are but a simple luxury.

You are wrong. Computers and LCD screens are a requirement of trillions of dollars worth of industry.

Actually, in this day and age... computers and screens are more of a staple than a luxury item. People are expected to have access to computers for many daily tasks.

The issue with price fixing and monopolies is market distortion. It destroys the concept of capitalism and free markets.

It might be their products... but companies do NOT own markets. When a company controls a market, they should not unfairly charge consumers. Monopolies are bad for the economy as they no longer allow markets to operate efficiently

.

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post #52 of 59

7/5/12 at 9:31am

unfriend
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Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckieHo

Terrible idea..... If one guy at a company cheated in a division that sold diapers, should an entire company have to pay for it? No.

So your argument is that a company not be held accountable for the actions of their employees ? THEY are representatives of the company. I highly doubt one individual holds enough power to set prices and sway other companies to set their prices the same.

Is your opinion that this process was the work of one man, without the backing of any other members of the company ?

One person who simply has the connections and pull to go off on his own and put together a meeting with numerous other companies, AND influence them to adjust their prices to where he wants. One person acting solely on his own outside of the scope and direction of the CEO and board of his company, yet with the good of the company in mind. I find that scernario to be highly unlikely.

Decisions like this do not get made without a chain of command, and that is precisely why I say fine the company. To simply fine one person and not the company, there is no accountability by that company for any wrongdoing.
This is something that has a direct and substantial impact on the income / stock prices of the company, and yet you are saying that they should not have to pay for it ?????

I am sorry, but I do not see the logic against fining the COMPANY responsible for the actions described in the OP.

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post #53 of 59

7/5/12 at 9:57am

DuckieHo
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Quote:

Originally Posted by unfriend

So your argument is that a company not be held accountable for the actions of their employees ? THEY are representatives of the company. I highly doubt one individual holds enough power to set prices and sway other companies to set their prices the same.
Is your opinion that this process was the work of one man, without the backing of any other members of the company ?
One person who simply has the connections and pull to go off on his own and put together a meeting with numerous other companies, AND influence them to adjust their prices to where he wants. One person acting solely on his own outside of the scope and direction of the CEO and board of his company, yet with the good of the company in mind. I find that scernario to be highly unlikely.
Decisions like this do not get made without a chain of command, and that is precisely why I say fine the company. To simply fine one person and not the company, there is no accountability by that company for any wrongdoing.
This is something that has a direct and substantial impact on the income / stock prices of the company, and yet you are saying that they should not have to pay for it ?????
I am sorry, but I do not see the logic against fining the COMPANY responsible for the actions described in the OP.

I never said that a company not be held accountable for the actions of their employees. However, a company may not always be accountable for the action of an employee. If a postal worker kills someone out of the blue, who is responsible? If they do it on the clock or off the clock? What if company records has documented that he was acting unusual before hand?

The answer is "It depends!". That is the point of courts and law... isn't it? To determine who is accountable, to what extent, and what a fair punishment is.

As for Toshiba, it is a conglomerate. Each division is basically a separate company so higher level-executives may really not know what is happening below them. If the courts decide they had enough reasonable controls and audits in place, then it might not be the fault of the higher levels.

Unfortunately, in cases like this it may be hard to pin enough blame on one person or deals might be made with the prosecutor. The prosecutor might decide it is better to not arrest one person but get more money now.... then to fight a long expensive court battle and risk getting nothing. The government has limited resources and they cannot prosecute everyone. This is reality. Have you heard about the LIBOR manipulation case? If you think Toshiba was bad... read up on THAT!
Edited by DuckieHo - 7/5/12 at 10:02am

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post #54 of 59

7/5/12 at 10:05am

djriful

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Well, I've just bought another screen.

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post #55 of 59

7/5/12 at 10:25am

r3skyline
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was anyone else reminded of the king of the hill episode with the different propane giants in the state? lol

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post #56 of 59

7/5/12 at 11:14am

unfriend
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Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckieHo

I never said that a company not be held accountable for the actions of their employees. However, a company may not always be accountable for the action of an employee. If a postal worker kills someone out of the blue, who is responsible? If they do it on the clock or off the clock? What if company records has documented that he was acting unusual before hand?
The answer is "It depends!". That is the point of courts and law... isn't it? To determine who is accountable, to what extent, and what a fair punishment is.
As for Toshiba, it is a conglomerate. Each division is basically a separate company so higher level-executives may really not know what is happening below them. If the courts decide they had enough reasonable controls and audits in place, then it might not be the fault of the higher levels.
Unfortunately, in cases like this it may be hard to pin enough blame on one person or deals might be made with the prosecutor. The prosecutor might decide it is better to not arrest one person but get more money now.... then to fight a long expensive court battle and risk getting nothing. The government has limited resources and they cannot prosecute everyone. This is reality. Have you heard about the LIBOR manipulation case? If you think Toshiba was bad... read up on THAT!

I can appreciate that explanation. Thank you for expanding. I agree, in a case by case basis, it should be looked at carefully.

In THIS instance here, I would be surprised if this was not something that higher ups (not necessarily all) had knowledge of and direction over. That being said though, I agree that a lengthy court battle may / may not be in the best interests of the government, and it may end up backfiring.

I will have to give that one a look today when I have some spare time.

Sorry if my tone came off as accusatory, I just read the first response, and inferred (perhaps erroneously) that you were removing blame from Toshiba, which surprised me.

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post #57 of 59

7/5/12 at 11:21am

DuckieHo
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Quote:

Originally Posted by unfriend

I can appreciate that explanation. Thank you for expanding. I agree, in a case by case basis, it should be looked at carefully.
In THIS instance here, I would be surprised if this was not something that higher ups (not necessarily all) had knowledge of and direction over. That being said though, I agree that a lengthy court battle may / may not be in the best interests of the government, and it may end up backfiring.
I will have to give that one a look today when I have some spare time.
Sorry if my tone came off as accusatory, I just read the first response, and inferred (perhaps erroneously) that you were removing blame from Toshiba, which surprised me.

Japanese love their conglomeration though. Toshiba is made up of many companies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiba#Operations

Should the nuclear power plant or elevator divisions be responsible for the actions of the LCD division? How far up was probably part of the investigation already...

The LIBOR scandal is huge. LIBOR is a rate set by banks that affects $900 trillions of dollars of investments. It turns out bankers colluding and were playing with it to benefit each other.

...yes, that is $900 TRILLION are affected by this one daily number.
Edited by DuckieHo - 7/5/12 at 11:24am

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post #58 of 59

7/5/12 at 7:38pm

JTHMfreak
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bit_reaper

And what happens when the supply of old CRT's have been exhausted? Monitors don't last forever you know.

Just to chime in, I see quite a few crts being given away for free in my area on craigslist daily. Granted it's not an infinite number, but alot still

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post #59 of 59

7/5/12 at 8:04pm

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I think duckieHo already put to bed the "why shouldn't companies be allowed to price fix" argument but I figure I can toss in my 2c.

Why shouldn't we punish companies for price fixing? If we decide we don't want them to then there's no reason not to punish them for doing so. There's no reason to wait for market forces to eventually even out pricing when we can just regulate industry to ensure the problem of artificially high prices doesn't come up in the first place. The market isn't there to serve these companies, it's there to serve the people and if the people decide it should operate in a certain way then it's up to the companies to comply.

If we the people decided that industry CEO's had to serve as lunch ladies at a local school for one week out of the year (to keep em humble) then it would simply be up to industry to comply with those requirements. If we regulated that the CEO's had to wear green on fridays and red the rest of the week then so be it. The people get to decide what is acceptable and what is required, however fickle or absurd, and industry is simply expected to comply.

Or buy a few more politicians to change the rules in their favor anyways.

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[BBC] Toshiba Fined $87M for LCD Price fixing

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