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Pipe bending 101 - Page 161

post #1601 of 2175
I have checked the tube and 410M with the catheters and they are definitely matched properly so we can eliminate that.

Fortunately the tube is not being crushed - it seems to be reaching the limit of stretch for 0.6mm walls and is then flattening. I can eliminate the ripple by making the bend slowly but the flattening does not vary at all with speed. To be honest I can probably put up with it for now as it is not tearing and is still strong enough for the job it needs to do. I will polish up a piece and see how noticeable it is.
post #1602 of 2175
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielCoffey View Post

I have checked the tube and 410M with the catheters and they are definitely matched properly so we can eliminate that.

Fortunately the tube is not being crushed - it seems to be reaching the limit of stretch for 0.6mm walls and is then flattening. I can eliminate the ripple by making the bend slowly but the flattening does not vary at all with speed. To be honest I can probably put up with it for now as it is not tearing and is still strong enough for the job it needs to do. I will polish up a piece and see how noticeable it is.

Heating it up and letting cool down slowly is called annealing.
It makes it soft and easier to bend. If you do this, it wont flatten or wrinkle up.

And in reverse, heating it up and cooling it very fast in cold water will harden it up. or temper it.
Edited by PepeLapiu - 4/9/14 at 9:27am
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post #1603 of 2175
I have just tried a little silicone on the shoe on a single bend and it makes no difference to the flattening. It is in no danger of collapsing the tube or tearing but there are two pronounced shoulders on the outer sides of the bend.

I have a suspicion that any attempt to come home with a blowtorch will be met by some wife aggro so I will have to work up to that.
post #1604 of 2175
I'm not talking about a flame thrower here.
Just a little torch like this:

http://m.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mastercraft-propane-torch-kit-0587542p.html

You can find one at any hardware store.
I use it to light up my bbq grill.

Or you could probably just heat up your tubing by leaving it on your stove top at max setting for a few minutes.
Do it when the boss wife is away. biggrin.gif
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post #1605 of 2175
where can you buy camozzi fittings from?
Edited by sushisky - 4/12/14 at 9:40pm
post #1606 of 2175
Well... I tried annealing and didn't get very good results I am afraid. Lots of inside bend ripples and still some flattening.

I picked up a butane/propane torch head and canister and had a go at heating three short test lengths. I got that fascinating colour change and then black surface oxidisation. I suspect I stopped a little short of full annealing but there was certainly a little red glow. On cooling and a little cleaning, one piece was happy to bend by hand so it was definitely softened. In the bender, the latch made quite a mark in the metal, the outside still flattened (albeit less than the hard tube) but I got very bad ripples on the inside of the bend - much worse than with the hard tube. I got ripples on five out of six bends.

Although the tube did clean up (on the outside) with the emery paper I would be concerned about the state of the inside.

Given the results and extra work involved (not to mention the fact that I have £40 of this hard tube in my spare room) I will stick with the unannealed hard tube since it gives very consistent results. There should be no significant restriction in the flow, no internal cleaning required and the flattening can be made into a feature with enough polishing because it is even throughout the bend.

B-neg - I know you have recommended that chrome tubing for me to try but at the cost they demand for it, it is simply too expensive for a first project. Thanks for the source though.

This build will be bare polished copper. Once I have confidence in planning tube routing and bends, who knows. Maybe chrome next time.
post #1607 of 2175
Thread Starter 
Ripples mean the pipe is slipping in the former. What bend radius are the benders?
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post #1608 of 2175
The 410M is a 24mm radius. If it is slipping, it must be by a tiny amount because the ding the clamp made on the top of the annealed section of tube was highly noticeable and matched the clamp position perfectly. I didn't tape these test pieces to mark the start of the bend however.

I have asked the Ridgid Tools rep about the condition of the bender (that over-machined metal that I showed you in the email) but have not had a reply yet.
post #1609 of 2175
My M410 has a bend radius of 25 mm.
And yes, I checked and double checked several times.
Mind you different tubing thickness and hardneds might be responsible for some variations .....maybe?
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post #1610 of 2175
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielCoffey View Post

Well... I tried annealing and didn't get very good results I am afraid. Lots of inside bend ripples and still some flattening.

I picked up a butane/propane torch head and canister and had a go at heating three short test lengths. I got that fascinating colour change and then black surface oxidisation. I suspect I stopped a little short of full annealing but there was certainly a little red glow. On cooling and a little cleaning, one piece was happy to bend by hand so it was definitely softened. In the bender, the latch made quite a mark in the metal, the outside still flattened (albeit less than the hard tube) but I got very bad ripples on the inside of the bend - much worse than with the hard tube. I got ripples on five out of six bends.

Although the tube did clean up (on the outside) with the emery paper I would be concerned about the state of the inside.

Given the results and extra work involved (not to mention the fact that I have £40 of this hard tube in my spare room) I will stick with the unannealed hard tube since it gives very consistent results. There should be no significant restriction in the flow, no internal cleaning required and the flattening can be made into a feature with enough polishing because it is even throughout the bend.

B-neg - I know you have recommended that chrome tubing for me to try but at the cost they demand for it, it is simply too expensive for a first project. Thanks for the source though.

This build will be bare polished copper. Once I have confidence in planning tube routing and bends, who knows. Maybe chrome next time.

You could always get your pipes chromed, or nickeled, or whatever, at a plating shop after you are done bending them.
Mind you, I like the look of polished copper.
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