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Pipe bending 101 - Page 205

post #2041 of 2174
Nah, a square bending jig makes complete sense.

Guess all of industry is copying Monsoon with their revolutionary design
http://www.metalcraftusa.com/tubecoformks.html

We should have had square res after the first round one was made too, and oblong fittings, and triangle radiators, and hexagon fans.
Edited by Jakusonfire - 1/19/16 at 2:26am
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post #2042 of 2174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

Nah, a square bending jig makes complete sense.

Guess all of industry is copying Monsoon with their revolutionary design
http://www.metalcraftusa.com/tubecoformks.html

We should have had square res after the first round one was made too, and oblong fittings, and triangle radiators, and hexagon fans.

HA I knew I seen other jigs that looked a lot like monsoons that were for metal (and where around before monsoons) but I couldn't find any so I didn't want to put my foot in my mouth in case I was wrong.

I honestly dont think that there is anything wrong with monsoon or dark side making them like this. Kinda the only way it could be made IMO. Thats why I said Apple vs Sammy here, a rectangle with round corners.

I do see a major flaw with Darksides though, they are made from PVC and PVCs melting point (or malleable point) is half that of acrylic(140F vs 240F Malleable/160F vs 320F Melting). I would think if you are not very careful you may deform that mandrel while using it.
Edited by Cyber Locc - 1/19/16 at 7:58am
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post #2043 of 2174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Locc View Post

HA I knew I seen other jigs that looked a lot like monsoons that were for metal (and where around before monsoons) but I couldn't find any so I didn't want to put my foot in my mouth in case I was wrong.

I honestly dont think that there is anything wrong with monsoon or dark side making them like this. Kinda the only way it could be made IMO. Thats why I said Apple vs Sammy here, a rectangle with round corners.

I do see a major flaw with Darksides though, they are made from PVC and PVCs melting point (or malleable point) is half that of acrylic(140F vs 240F Malleable/160F vs 320F Melting). I would think if you are not very careful you may deform that mandrel while using it.

I think it should be pretty safe. We are a long way from melt point when bending tubing and plastic doesn't transfer heat great. Obviously they won't be as durable as metal in the long run, and you wouldn't want to have the heat gun on them directly.
I'm just waiting for the right size to come in stock here and I'll give em a go. As much as I have said that jigs were unnecessary, if they are cheap enough why not.
Edited by Jakusonfire - 1/20/16 at 6:14am
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post #2044 of 2174
So if I buy the 12mm Chrome Plated copper tube to bend for my loop, can I use those tubings with the Bitspower 12mm Enhance hardline fittings? thx.

And what is this cutter that he was using? Like the brand?
And was he using Chrome plated copper tubing? Or copper with PVC coating?



And is there a benefit of using PETG tubing over these Chrome plated copper tubing? I don't see a lot of ppl using these chrome plated copper tubing, most of them are just using
either Acrylic or PeTG tubing.

Any info would be appreciated, thx.
Edited by jincuteguy - 1/21/16 at 7:46pm
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post #2045 of 2174
True.

However uninformed buyers will generally settle for the cheaper option 99.99999% of the time.

The Monsoon mandrel are $35 by themselves iirc. wink.gif

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post #2046 of 2174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post

True.

However uninformed buyers will generally settle for the cheaper option 99.99999% of the time.

The Monsoon mandrel are $35 by themselves iirc. wink.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif

Are you talking to me?
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post #2047 of 2174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jincuteguy View Post

Are you talking to me?

No he isnt, in answer to a few of your questions. Yes you can bend it however it is hard to bend pre chormee tubing, its easier to bend regular copper then send it out to have it chromed (albeit it cost more)

Yes the bits power fittings will work.

I do not know the brand but its just a basic copper tube cutter.

Yes it was chrome plated, I don't think you get can get PVC coating that is silver I would stay away from PVC coated anyway.

Is there any advantages to PETG/Acrylic, well ya as there is advantages the other direction.

Copper advantages -

slower liquid dissipation (copper doesn't allow air to escape or water acrylic and petg does)
Longer life, its more durable and will last in defiantly if taken care of properly.

Copper disadvantages -
Price, this is one reason people use the others copper is a lot more expensive, especially if you get it chromed after.
Difficulty - it requires special high dollar tools to bend copper, it is also difficult to do and master, petg/acrylic only needs heated and then bends like taffy.

That's just a quick few reasons and should give you an idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceadderman View Post

True.

However uninformed buyers will generally settle for the cheaper option 99.99999% of the time.

The Monsoon mandrel are $35 by themselves iirc. wink.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif

"uninformed buyers" are exactly what I was saying though, Joe Schmo that wants to do 1 Acrylic build every 4 years isn't going to spend 40+ dollars (there 40 when I just checked and then shipping makes them about 50) on some mandrels. He will bend it freehand or he will use bottle caps ect. That is where Darkside comes into play 12 dollars for a few mandrels is justifiable 50 dollars is not. Enthusiasts justify the 100+ dollars (you need different sizes for different tubes) by the fact we will use them alot more often and them holding up is important to us.

You can see this in any other industry as well, If I need to put up new roofing but it is a 1 time thing I will buy the cheapest nail gun I can find, it may not be as nice or last as long but as long as it works for that job thats fine. However a Carpenter is going to splurge and buy a much nicer one as he uses it everyday, to him it is an investment.

This may make you mad sorry if it does, I wouldn't tell anyone to buy the monsoon ever if they were only doing 1 or 2 builds every 4 years. It simply isn't worth the money. I would go even further to tell them its a complete waste of money in there case and to grab a bottle cap if they want a mandrel as lets be honest that is basically the same thing. 12 dollars is still more than a bottle cap but it is a little easier to justify. To someone like me however that is constantly changes things, and doing numerous builds every year the monsoons are justified and worth the investment.

I am having the same debate about this copper tubing as well. In the case of someone that will build it and forget it this is awesome. To someone like me it is also awesome, however if I have to bend copper and get it chrome plated for 100s of dollars every time a I change something that is not economically ideal. A pre chromed tube would lessen this burden and I am going to try it and fingers crossed it works.
Edited by Cyber Locc - 1/22/16 at 7:59am
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post #2048 of 2174
Well from what i seen in this 101 guide, it looks alot easier to bend copper with the tool than acrylic/ petg.
Price is not a concern.


And the guy bend the chrome plated copper pipe, so i dont think why i would buy copper and bend it, then get it chrome plated.

Like it looks super easy to bend these chrome plated copper pipe, i just dont get why ppl still go with Petg tubing.

I guess the next trend in watercooling will be copper.
Edited by jincuteguy - 1/22/16 at 10:31am
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post #2049 of 2174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jincuteguy View Post

Well from what i seen in this 101 guide, it looks alot easier to bend copper with the tool than acrylic/ petg.
Price is not a concern.


And the guy bend the chrome plated copper pipe, so i dont think why i would buy copper and bend it, then get it chrome plated.

Like it looks super easy to bend these chrome plated copper pipe, i just dont get why ppl still go with Petg tubing.

I guess the next trend in watercooling will be copper.

I didn't think so lol, Copper has been around before acrylic was, People doing copper builds is what inspired people to do the acrylic thing. After buying a good bending tool ya it is easy to "Bend" the tube to bend it without wrinkles and to the right dimensions is another story.

Even if we take those pre chromed copper tubing at 60 dollars for 20 inches of good stuff thats a whole lot more expensive than PETG. Even then bending that is far from easy, its easier from what I have gathered talking to suppliers and friends that do plumbing. You can buy that cheap home depot stuff and give that shot, However the chrome plating is far from great, most of the tubes are bent (I went to my local store every single one they had was very bent) and when you make 90s it will craze and the copper will begin to flake and it will look terrible.

IF we can find a good source for high quality copper tube that is chrome plated and holds up to bending and is cheap that would be amazing, from what I have seen the home depot stuff isn't that. I am not trying to dissuade you from copper tube its awesome and its unique defiantly go with it. I am just saying if your doing it because you think it will be easier than PETG you are very mistaken, and again the money factor while that may not affect you it affects a lot of people, especially when a nice set of benders is 200+ dollars.

Also I dont know if my store has junk or how he bent that, They had it at my HD and I took one and tried to see how easily I could bend it back to straight, it was easy bent no problem and the chrome cracked right off with it. Copper is made soft to be bent, Chrome is not.
Edited by Cyber Locc - 1/22/16 at 3:22pm
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post #2050 of 2174
@Cyberloc...

I get what you're saying. However...

...A year and a half ago, I was that uninformed buyer. It's just a good thing that Darkside kit wasn't available at the time I got my Monsoon kit. I probably would've got it. But then I wouldn't have sprung for the complete Monsoon kit. Since I am a perfectionist, the Monsoon kit was the best way to go. Heck I almost went with the PrimoChill bending rig but intelligence won out on that decision making process. I have the Red mandrels and will be adding to the kit with a set of Blue mandrels for smaller pipe forming for my friends/customers who would rather have or like the look of smaller tubing. But I agree with you on cheap solutions as well. Bottle caps however are probably not a good solution however(at least here in the states) since they tend to have ridges molded into them and would leave marks in the tubing as the bend is formed prior to cooling. I drink a buttload of Mt. Dew and the caps on those will tear skin off your fingers when you put it in the fridge and take it back out later, due to pressure build up. biggrin.gif lulz

Thread spools are probably a better way to go, or even a couple of wood discs from the local Home Depot. thumb.gif

On the chrome tubing issue...

I fully agree with you that Chrome pipe from a Hardware shop is probably not up for bending. Too easy to crinkle the finish, unless extremely careful with it. For my purposes, copper is the better way to go, I'm not yet doing it however since I've got bit of experience with bending plumbing lines.

Acrylic v PETG...

PETG is better if you're a novice. It's stronger and easier to bend than Acrylic. Acrylic is better for clarity when using clear tubing. But only nominally so. It just looks better. But if you want that kind of clarity, you never woulda got flex tubing to begin with imho. I don't subscribe to JayZ2cents smacking the stuff with a hammer. How many times are you going to be wielding a hammer in your case after all. tongue.gif

I've never used the Glass tubing, so I will not even address it in relation to above. Not sure I would even attempt it unless someone else is footing the bill. blushsmiley.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

Nah, a square bending jig makes complete sense.

Guess all of industry is copying Monsoon with their revolutionary design
http://www.metalcraftusa.com/tubecoformks.html

We should have had square res after the first round one was made too, and oblong fittings, and triangle radiators, and hexagon fans.

Actually there were and are square Res's available. wink.gif



I guess however I should have clarified that thougt about a square 180.

Basically it's a rounded corner square. To make a single bend as tightly together as possible, whereas it would be almost impossible to bend using a 45* mandrel. Don't get my wrong. I like the 180 as it is now, but for clearance issues a squared mandrel would fit the bill better than a rounded one. thumb.gif

Oh and only Darkside madrels are copied. I challenge you to find another mandrel kit that looks exactly like a Monsoon kit. No there is no 180 in the Darkside kit but if you painted the Monsoons black, you would not be able to tell the difference from one to the other when mounted on a bench. I don;t see what's so hard to understand and why you feel the need to trivialize my opinion on the matter but okay. thumb.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif
Edited by Ceadderman - 1/23/16 at 12:03pm
 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Crosshair IV Formula Sapphire Radeon HD 6870 Sapphire Radeon HD 6870 
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
Corsair Dominator G. Skill Ripjaws X G. Skill x2 HITACHI 1TB Deskstars 1TB RAID0 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
ASUS DRW-24B1ST  Swiftech 6950/6870 GPU Heatsink Swiftech 6950/6870 GPU Heatsink Monsoon 1/2"x5/8" PETG White Hardline tubing. 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Monsoon Economy Hardline fittings EK Dual DDC V2 top Swiftech Pump DDC-1T (2) Liquid Fusion V Double helix Reservoir 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Yate Loon 120x20 (D12SM-12C) Medium Speed Silen... EK Supreme HF Classified EK Thermosphere GPU Block EK Thermosphere GPU Block 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win7 64 bit Ultimate OEM Asus VH222H Black HDMI Widescreen Logitech the OCZ went buhbye adios. Don't know ... Corsair CMPSU HX 850w Modular 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
HAF 932 Logitech g9x COOLER MASTER Weapon of Choice: M4 Duramesh Pad Logitech X-240 2.1 speakers 
OtherOther
Sunbeam Rheosmart 3 Creative X-Fi 
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