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[LegitReviews]ASRock X79 Extreme11 Motherboard Announced - Intel X79 Gets Refresh - Page 16

post #151 of 419
The hell is scout mode...so gimmicky.
post #152 of 419
The SLI crossfire bridges are only about 1GB/s of bandwidth, and are probably used for the lowest latency communication requirements, while the bulk of transfers go through the much higher bandwidth PCI-E bus.

The bridges don't run out of bandwidth around a certain res; they never had remotely enough, and were never intended to be the primary path of communication between cards.

You can often run SLI without SLI bridges at all with a modest performance impact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post

What so in multi gpu it magically uses more bandwidth than as a single card in a single slot?

There is nothing magical about it, it's a simple fact about how Crossfire/SLI work.

A single GPU only needs to talk to the CPU. The card gets filled up with texture data, then can get by with a fairly light stream of info that tells it what to render.

Crossfire and SLI configs need vastly more bandwidth to share coherency information with each other. Maintaining the same texture buffer might be fairly easy, but frame buffers need to be kept updated on the fly, and everything needs to be synchronized. Instead of just talking to the CPU, each card needs to talk to the CPU and every other card in the SLI/Crossfire setup.

This is why Crossfire and the modern incarnation of SLI didn't take off until PCI-E showed up, because they needed the extra bandwidth (especially upstream) PCI-E provided.

It's also why they even bother with bridge chips to expand PCI-E lanes. This does utterly nothing to improve bandwidth to and from the CPU, but since bandwidth to/from the CPU isn't the limiting factor, it doesn't matter, as long as bandwidth between cards is improved.
Edited by Blameless - 7/26/12 at 10:41am
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post #153 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post

Not this crap again. This is fud that someone made up.
http://www.overclock.net/t/903852/3x-30-portrait-6970-cf-eyefinity-vs-580-sli-surround-showdown/0_40#post_15247252
doh.gif
Yea, magic!
What's more comical is you don't even realize those are equivalent to pcie 2/0 x16 speed. LOL.

All I see in that link is statement that CF is working fine at resolutions higher than 2560x1600 but nothing in that post indicates that CF bridges are designed to handle resolutions above that. If you would have bothered doing your research you would be aware that CF bridge is a modified DVI link.

That does not mean ofc that CF will not work above that resolution, ofc it does and if it does not then the issue is not a CF bridge but problem lies somewhere else. I was running just fine 5400x1920 with CF of 6770 and 5770 and while it had some issues none were related to the CF bridges but had more to do with inadequate performance and vRAM of these card for that resolution.

If you move into Eyefinity with CF two things happen. (1) The data that does not fit through CF bridge will move over PCIe (2) Cards switch into tiled (32x32 pixel tiles) rendering mode (so actually the CF bridge should be ok for approx twice the amount of 2560x1600 pixels, if there is nothing else going through the link but rendered frames). .
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post #154 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

All I see in that link is statement that CF is working fine at resolutions higher than 2560x1600 but nothing in that post indicates that CF bridges are designed to handle resolutions above that. If you would have bothered doing your research you would be aware that CF bridge is a modified DVI link.
That does not mean ofc that CF will not work above that resolution, ofc it does and if it does not then the issue is not a CF bridge but problem lies somewhere else. I was running just fine 5400x1920 with CF of 6770 and 5770 and while it had some issues none were related to the CF bridges but had more to do with inadequate performance and vRAM of these card for that resolution.
If you move into Eyefinity with CF two things happen. (1) The data that does not fit through CF bridge will move over PCIe (2) Cards switch into tiled (32x32 pixel tiles) rendering mode (so actually the CF bridge should be ok for approx twice the amount of 2560x1600 pixels, if there is nothing else going through the link but rendered frames). .


I'm not even sure what you're saying? There are users with triple 30s with quadfire w/o issue. What proof do you have for your argument? The whole debate surrounding the crossfire bridges sprouted from one guy's PEBKAC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

The SLI crossfire bridges are only about 1GB/s of bandwidth, and are probably used for the lowest latency communication requirements, while the bulk of transfers go through the much higher bandwidth PCI-E bus.
The bridges don't run out of bandwidth around a certain res; they never had remotely enough, and were never intended to be the primary path of communication between cards.
You can often run SLI without SLI bridges at all with a modest performance impact.
There is nothing magical about it, it's a simple fact about how Crossfire/SLI work...


That's a lot of regurgitation.
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post #155 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post

I'm not even sure what you're saying? There are users with triple 30s with quadfire w/o issue. What proof do you have for your argument? The whole debate surrounding the crossfire bridges sprouted from one guy's PEBKAC.

I'm saying that CF bridge has only bandwidth which is enough for 2560x1600@60Hz. What I am not saying (although it seems you are trying to imply that I am) is that this causes any issues in running the CF above that resolution, as it does not. Any surplus data that does not fit through CF bridge moves over PCIe. I'm sure you are aware that you can run CF just fine without any bridges at all?

As far as proof goes I don't have link saved but if I remember correct the claim that CF bridge is just a modified DVI link is based on AMD whitepaper from a long while ago.

I'm not aware of any argument TBH which could have "started this". It's just the question pops up once in a while for past several years about CF bridges, mostly in the form of "can I run CF without bridges" or "is it better to have 2 bridges than one" etc. While there has been some benchmarks done on PCIe 3 vs 2 I'm not aware of any that would have done so at high resolution eyefinity setups, mostly these are about CF/SLI high end cards on 2560x1600 and some seem to find some difference and some not.
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post #156 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

I'm saying that CF bridge has only bandwidth which is enough for 2560x1600@60Hz. What I am not saying (although it seems you are trying to imply that I am) is that this causes any issues in running the CF above that resolution, as it does not. Any surplus data that does not fit through CF bridge moves over PCIe. I'm sure you are aware that you can run CF just fine without any bridges at all?
As far as proof goes I don't have link saved but if I remember correct the claim that CF bridge is just a modified DVI link is based on AMD whitepaper from a long while ago.
I'm not aware of any argument TBH which could have "started this". It's just the question pops up once in a while for past several years about CF bridges, mostly in the form of "can I run CF without bridges" or "is it better to have 2 bridges than one" etc. While there has been some benchmarks done on PCIe 3 vs 2 I'm not aware of any that would have done so at high resolution eyefinity setups, mostly these are about CF/SLI high end cards on 2560x1600 and some seem to find some difference and some not.

Not even using the same motherboard chipset, nor the same GPU's (6990+2x 6970, less PCI-E bus traffic and less crossfire bridge traffic versus 4x 6970), almost an entire GPU generation (ten months) after my tests were conducted. It's funny when people make noob comments on topics they know nothing about, especially when I've been building extremely high end systems when they were having "PEBKAC" issues with their Nintendo 64. This was also during the "glory days" of the AMD driver team's excellence in quality.


Luckily now PCI-E 3.0 has speeds even at 8x that things run pretty great (this is the first time you can have speeds equal to quad 16x 2.0 with X79 and PLX Z77). Most data in multi-GPU goes over the PCI-E bus, not the crossfire/SLI bridges. Back in those days I tested on quad 8x PCI-E 2.0 slots using crappy NF200 chips. Running 12 million pixels between four 6970's and three crossfire bridges and the worlds worst driver made for some interesting times.
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post #157 of 419
Oh, one thing I wanted to mention if it hasn't already been, is that the board's PLX chips operate at PCI-E 3.0 speeds only and you cannot select 2.0. So NVIDIA 6xx series users can run this board at 3.0 speed native without doing any reg edit/.exe tweaks.
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post #158 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

Not even using the same motherboard chipset, nor the same GPU's (6990+2x 6970, less PCI-E bus traffic and less crossfire bridge traffic versus 4x 6970), almost an entire GPU generation (ten months) after my tests were conducted. It's funny when people make noob comments on topics they know nothing about, especially when I've been building extremely high end systems when they were having "PEBKAC" issues with their Nintendo 64. This was also during the "glory days" of the AMD driver team's excellence in quality.
Luckily now PCI-E 3.0 has speeds even at 8x that things run pretty great (this is the first time you can have speeds equal to quad 16x 2.0 with X79 and PLX Z77). Most data in multi-GPU goes over the PCI-E bus, not the crossfire/SLI bridges. Back in those days I tested on quad 8x PCI-E 2.0 slots using crappy NF200 chips. Running 12 million pixels between four 6970's and three crossfire bridges and the worlds worst driver made for some interesting times.

Ok, so I was looking at your build thread when I came across this pic and thought...what the hell?!?

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My Rig
(20 items)
 
  
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Intel Core i5-2500k MSI P67 XFX Radeon HD 6850 Patriot 1600L 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Maxtor 7H5 western digital wd10ears seagate st500 Swiftech Apogee 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Black Ice Extreme Swiftech MCP Technofront Challenger Heatkiller GPU-X2 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Swiftech MCR120 Windows 7 Ultimate Viewsonic  Microsoft Sidewinder X6 
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Corsair 750 Coolermaster HAF932 Gigabyte M8000X Asus Xonar DG 
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post #159 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by sortableturnip View Post

Ok, so I was looking at your build thread when I came across this pic and thought...what the $hit?!?

Sub-zero home computers are never pretty. biggrin.gif
Zybane
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
8700K @ 5.23 GHz ASUS ROG Strix Z370-I Titan Xp - 2025 MHz G.Skill TridentZ 16GB 3520 MHz CL14 1T 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 960 Pro - 1TB Windows 10 Pro Asus PG278QR 27" 165Hz G-Sync Razer BlackWidow TE Stealth Chroma 
PowerMouseAudioAudio
Corsair AX1500i 1500W Titanium Razer Mamba TE Denon AVR-X7200WA Elac BS 312 Speakers 
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Sennheiser HD-700 Headphones Velodyne MiniVee Subwoofer Buttkicker LFE Razer Orbweaver Stealth Chroma 
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Zybane
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
8700K @ 5.23 GHz ASUS ROG Strix Z370-I Titan Xp - 2025 MHz G.Skill TridentZ 16GB 3520 MHz CL14 1T 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Samsung 960 Pro - 1TB Windows 10 Pro Asus PG278QR 27" 165Hz G-Sync Razer BlackWidow TE Stealth Chroma 
PowerMouseAudioAudio
Corsair AX1500i 1500W Titanium Razer Mamba TE Denon AVR-X7200WA Elac BS 312 Speakers 
AudioAudioAudioOther
Sennheiser HD-700 Headphones Velodyne MiniVee Subwoofer Buttkicker LFE Razer Orbweaver Stealth Chroma 
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post #160 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

Sub-zero home computers are never pretty. biggrin.gif

I beg to differ wink.gif

with insulation showing (Click to show)
(and yes that was a really smug thing for me to say)
Edited by Alatar - 7/26/12 at 7:52pm
 
Benching
(17 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
[i7 5960X @ 4.8GHz] [Rampage V Extreme] [Titan 1400MHz (1500MHz bench)] [Various] 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
[250GB 840EVO +2x SpinpointF3 1TB RAID0] [LD PC-V2 SS Phase Change] [XSPC X2O 750 pump/res] [Monsta 360 full copper + EK XT 360 + XT 240] 
MonitorPowerCaseAudio
[Crossover 27Q LED-P 1440p+ASUS 1200p+LG 1080p] [Corsair AX1200] [Dimastech Easy v3.0] [Sennheiser HD558s] 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
FX 8320, FX 8350, Phenom II x2 555BE i7 3930K, i7 860, i7 4770K, 68x Celeron D CVF, commando, 2x RIVE, Z87X-OC Asus 4870x2, Sapphire 4870 
GraphicsGraphicsGraphicsGraphics
2x 5870, 5850, 5830, 5770 2x 3870x2, 3870 GTX Titan, GTX 480, GTX 590 GTX 285, GTX 260, 4x 9800GT, 8800GTX 
RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
4x4GB vengeance, 2x4GB predatorX, 2x1GB OCZ DDR2 Intel X25-M 80GB LD PC-V2 SS Phase Change OCN Marksman 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
2x old tek slims (GPU) Various watercooling stuff win7, winxp AX1200 
Case
test bench / cardboard box 
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Benching
(17 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
[i7 5960X @ 4.8GHz] [Rampage V Extreme] [Titan 1400MHz (1500MHz bench)] [Various] 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
[250GB 840EVO +2x SpinpointF3 1TB RAID0] [LD PC-V2 SS Phase Change] [XSPC X2O 750 pump/res] [Monsta 360 full copper + EK XT 360 + XT 240] 
MonitorPowerCaseAudio
[Crossover 27Q LED-P 1440p+ASUS 1200p+LG 1080p] [Corsair AX1200] [Dimastech Easy v3.0] [Sennheiser HD558s] 
CPUCPUMotherboardGraphics
FX 8320, FX 8350, Phenom II x2 555BE i7 3930K, i7 860, i7 4770K, 68x Celeron D CVF, commando, 2x RIVE, Z87X-OC Asus 4870x2, Sapphire 4870 
GraphicsGraphicsGraphicsGraphics
2x 5870, 5850, 5830, 5770 2x 3870x2, 3870 GTX Titan, GTX 480, GTX 590 GTX 285, GTX 260, 4x 9800GT, 8800GTX 
RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
4x4GB vengeance, 2x4GB predatorX, 2x1GB OCZ DDR2 Intel X25-M 80GB LD PC-V2 SS Phase Change OCN Marksman 
CoolingCoolingOSPower
2x old tek slims (GPU) Various watercooling stuff win7, winxp AX1200 
Case
test bench / cardboard box 
  hide details  
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