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[LegitReviews]ASRock X79 Extreme11 Motherboard Announced - Intel X79 Gets Refresh - Page 22

post #211 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

Take, for example, an ASrock Extreme 9 board (one step lower, approx 280 euros usually) http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=X79%20Extreme9&cat=Specifications - which has 5x PCIe slots which run in x8 mode if all five are populated and, for example, 4x 7950 reference cards (http://ee.msi.com/product/vga/R7950-2PMD3GD5.html). Now there are obviously two slot so you would have a problem trying to fit them on the board as they are. Put them under water (either full blocks or core only can make this card a single slot solution) and dremel off half the bracket (or for these card a single slot brackets can be bought separately, I assume). And ofc a RAID card to 5th PCIe x16 slot.
Main advantage of battery backup is that you can turn on mode where the controller will not wait for stuff to finish writing into the disks, which can speed up stuff considerably as it has 256 - 512 mem of RAM onboard. In case of crash or power loss the data remains in the memory for up to 2 days and write is finished when power comes back, assuming it happens withing 2 days ofc.

Ah, the old single slot cooler GPU's and try and squeeze something in-between the GPU's trick. Like you said that would lower the slot speeds. I like the Extreme11 approach much better. biggrin.gif
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post #212 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

Ah, the old single slot cooler GPU's and try and squeeze something in-between the GPU's trick. Like you said that would lower the slot speeds. I like the Extreme11 approach much better. biggrin.gif

Well one cant really claim that the Extreme11 is not a good board. I'll maintain my opinion, though, that it is a bit overpriced as other configurations can do the same cheaper.

If you can afford 4 high enough GFX cards then putting them under water is only natural as the cost of the loop is only fraction of the cost of the cards and lets be honest, with 4 cards, even with very good case ventilation they WILL get pretty hot on air While you can get something sort of decent together for these custom loop wise for approx 300 euros (4x Heatkiller GPU cores, a pump + res and a radiator, as low as 2x120mm can get ya by if room is tight) and it would be also a lot more quiet.

MSI Big bang ii extreme can run 4x dual slot for half the price, however, it does not have SAS and if you are not willing to put even one card under water (~150 euros) then it does not have space for RAID card either.

EDIT: As far as x16 vs x8 PCIe 3.0 goes, however, I'm a bit skeptical in this regards if its really an advantage for this board as I suspect that increased latency might eat up any gains you get in performance and then some more. That one is atm ofc pure speculation and I doubt that any review site bother doing a test with high enough hardware to see the gains, if any, which x16 might offer over x8 PCIe 3.0.
Edited by Carniflex - 7/29/12 at 10:01am
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post #213 of 419
Yes, water of course. I was leaning more towards not wanting to drop any of the four GPU PCI-E lanes below 16x. Might not be that big of a deal with the current generation of GPU's but maybe the next.
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post #214 of 419
I'm curious about something on this board:

No matter what, there are really only two PCIe 3.0 x16 paths between the cpu/memory and the slots/cards. With the extra controller chips wedged in between, it's true that the slots and the cards in them can negotiate and believe they are running at x16, but... for each pair of slots, you're still funneling two x16 paths into a chip that has just one x16 coming out the other side, or vice versa. If you were to saturate the system, you couldn't really get more data to/from the cards than you could if they were all running at x8.

I'm not sure I see the win here...? Is there some way in which this is more than just cosmetic?
post #215 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by AikenDrum View Post

I'm curious about something on this board:
No matter what, there are really only two PCIe 3.0 x16 paths between the cpu/memory and the slots/cards. With the extra controller chips wedged in between, it's true that the slots and the cards in them can negotiate and believe they are running at x16, but... for each pair of slots, you're still funneling two x16 paths into a chip that has just one x16 coming out the other side, or vice versa. If you were to saturate the system, you couldn't really get more data to/from the cards than you could if they were all running at x8.
I'm not sure I see the win here...? Is there some way in which this is more than just cosmetic?

Won't know until someone actually tests the board.
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post #216 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by AikenDrum View Post

I'm curious about something on this board:
No matter what, there are really only two PCIe 3.0 x16 paths between the cpu/memory and the slots/cards. With the extra controller chips wedged in between, it's true that the slots and the cards in them can negotiate and believe they are running at x16, but... for each pair of slots, you're still funneling two x16 paths into a chip that has just one x16 coming out the other side, or vice versa. If you were to saturate the system, you couldn't really get more data to/from the cards than you could if they were all running at x8.
I'm not sure I see the win here...? Is there some way in which this is more than just cosmetic?

That's not how it works. In multi-GPU, the slots connected directly to the applicable PLX talk directly with each other via the PLX. So say you have two GPU's in 16x slots #1 and #2. #2 card can send it's information to card #1 over each's 16x speed link. It doesn't have to go from #2 GPU, to PLX, to CPU, CPU to PLX, to GPU #1. The CPU lane is primarily for new data and texture fill, not for swapping alternate frames data (and transferring data from 16x slots #3 and #4 to card #1 as in crossfire).

Check page 3 right hand side:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CFEQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.plxtech.com%2Fdownload%2Ffile%2F1824%2F&ei=98QVUOqJDs_kqAH2sIGICg&usg=AFQjCNFM4r4EVaRsNAjMVtrALcECEmdI8w

So the Extreme 11 is like that sample on the right of page three, but dual setup.
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post #217 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

The CPU lane is primarily for new data and texture fill, not for swapping alternate frames data (and transferring data from 16x slots #3 and #4 to card #1 as in crossfire).
Hm, it's fair that some traffic between cards can skip the round-trip in this case, but only 1/3 of it because, for any one card, only one other card of the other three is "local". I would also think that the command fifo being tossed from the master to the slaves, along with the final rendered frames/tiles (depending on mode), would be utterly dwarfed by the megatexel texture data constantly coming directly from main ram, though I could be wrong here. I'm not sure how much t-cache missing there is in a typical game these days.

On the bright side, the point you make about cross-card chatter means that there is, indeed, some degree of win in having this pseudo-4x16 arrangement, and it's not just cosmetic. It may or may not be a huge win, but it's a win. Thanks for the clarification. smile.gif
post #218 of 419
Ya, I am not entirely convinced at how much faster this board will be (GPU wise) with the two PLX chip's versus X79 native 16x/8x/8x/8x. But I think it's the boon of being able to run as fast or maybe slightly faster than native X79 even taking into consideration the slight latency added by the PLX chips all the while being able to run a large RAID array via the 8x PCI-E 3.0 lane. That there is something no other board can do with GPU's all at 16x speed.

But then again, unless you are running a server, is running more than two SSD's in RAID 0 (like native X79) really going to benefit say a gaming machine? I was thinking about buying six more Vertex 4's to make a 8x RAID 0 array but that may be tossing money out the window. I'd most likely still be sporting the Big Bang X-Power II if it wasn't defective and had 7970's permanently disappearing lol. I think a lot of the appeal of this board is it's uniqueness and having the best of the best.
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post #219 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

Ya, I am not entirely convinced at how much faster this board will be (GPU wise) with the two PLX chip's versus X79 native 16x/8x/8x/8x. But I think it's the boon of being able to run as fast or maybe slightly faster than native X79 even taking into consideration the slight latency added by the PLX chips all the while being able to run a large RAID array via the 8x PCI-E 3.0 lane. That there is something no other board can do with GPU's all at 16x speed.
But then again, unless you are running a server, is running more than two SSD's in RAID 0 (like native X79) really going to benefit say a gaming machine? I was thinking about buying six more Vertex 4's to make a 8x RAID 0 array but that may be tossing money out the window. I'd most likely still be sporting the Big Bang X-Power II if it wasn't defective and had 7970's permanently disappearing lol. I think a lot of the appeal of this board is it's uniqueness and having the best of the best.

As much as I would love this board the only heavy lifting I do is gaming. So in my case, everything else is wasted. I see this more for people who need an uber powerful workstation or do mass amounts of transcoding, CAD and video work. But even then its a toss up of whether you need this for the data transfer speed or something like the sr-x that has 2 CPU ports that can crunch numbers at a greater rate.
     
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post #220 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

But then again, unless you are running a server, is running more than two SSD's in RAID 0 (like native X79) really going to benefit say a gaming machine?
For most games, I would say it wouldn't be a massive difference. However, there are some ambitious folks in the industry who do the sort of things you see in Rage, where massive textures are constantly being streamed dynamically from disk to memory, causing you briefly to see blurryland when you swing the camera around to an under-cached part of the scene. Any game where an open world is being streamed, and especially if you turn detail up to an ultra setting, would benefit from a big SSD raid. That, or a boatload of RAM, so at least the data's still in the windows file cache the second+ time you need to fetch it.

Personally, I'm just incredibly impatient, and waiting 2-3s less for a scene transition actually matters to me. smile.gif Thus, I have 8 Samsung 830's waiting for a home on this board, or perhaps some other board with an add-on controller if this one doesn't materialize some day soon. Sick and wrong, I know...

If nothing else, RAID is just a good way to get large SSD capacity without paying the premium you find on capacities over about 256GB. Games are always getting bigger, after all.
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