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[TR] Microsoft 'didn't notice' it had removed Browser Choice for 17 months - Page 10

post #91 of 178
7/17/12 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

*sigh* ...MS DID do this.... They willfully made it harder for Netscape to run on Windows and this is part of their punishment for their illegal activities. What don't people understand?

You say this, yet you never really explain what they did, other than saying, "They used API's to make it harder for other browsers to run."

Could you expand on this? Maybe give details as to what Microsoft did?

Did they intentionally throttle speeds on other browsers? Did they change the installation process for other browsers? Did they simply bundle IE with Windows?
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post #92 of 178
7/17/12 at 10:37pm
You can really tell the average age of the people of OCN after reading through this thread. Had most been old enough to remember Navigator/Communicator, this thread would have read much differently. This was a huge deal then, and the consequences of MS's actions are still reverberating loudly today. They will and should be punished for "not noticing".
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post #93 of 178
7/17/12 at 11:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitsoldier View Post

You say this, yet you never really explain what they did, other than saying, "They used API's to make it harder for other browsers to run."
Could you expand on this? Maybe give details as to what Microsoft did?
Did they intentionally throttle speeds on other browsers? Did they change the installation process for other browsers? Did they simply bundle IE with Windows?

Does it matter what they did? They knowingly crippled software just so theirs could be on top. Just as they have done other things in the past, to stay on top, illegally. If they did it once, twice, and probably many more times they can do it again. Remember, they have been caught doing things shadily in the past and now they have to follow rules. Nobody cares if today it seems all peaches, because a company that has crossed the line before will do it again if you let them. It's business, that's all.

[edit] To above, not just age but intelligence. It's like saying a man who's killed can't kill again... I think it's best said that if a man does something to gain wealth he will do that very same thing again if he can. If we could kill, we would, I think the west proved that years ago.
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post #94 of 178
7/17/12 at 11:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Does it matter what they did? They knowingly crippled software just so theirs could be on top. Just as they have done other things in the past, to stay on top, illegally. If they did it once, twice, and probably many more times they can do it again. Remember, they have been caught doing things shadily in the past and now they have to follow rules. Nobody cares if today it seems all peaches, because a company that has crossed the line before will do it again if you let them. It's business, that's all.
[edit] To above, not just age but intelligence. It's like saying a man who's killed can't kill again... I think it's best said that if a man does something to gain wealth he will do that very same thing again if he can. If we could kill, we would, I think the west proved that years ago.

It really is an age thing, people here just don't remember the internet from say 92-00 nor is there really a reason to investigate because it's all milk and honey now.
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post #95 of 178
7/17/12 at 11:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by akromatic View Post

yeh however they must still offer choices and not force us to use what they want. ie apple and windows for arm

Now you bought a steak sandwich that comes with a free ice cream. Would you say they are forcing you to get ice cream? Oh gawd ikr I am so hungry right now.
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post #96 of 178
7/17/12 at 11:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

To above, not just age but intelligence. It's like saying a man who's killed can't kill again... I think it's best said that if a man does something to gain wealth he will do that very same thing again if he can. If we could kill, we would, I think the west proved that years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post

It really is an age thing, people here just don't remember the internet from say 92-00 nor is there really a reason to investigate because it's all milk and honey now.

IMO, you're both right. Part of it is this new generation that didn't have to work hard for crap. Their idea of working hard would be an ideal situation to most born in even the early-mid 80's. They barely did without, which is why they don't mind over-paying for buggy, unfinished games or why they willingly submit to unethical DRM. When you grow up in the generation of excess your response to everything is "what's the big deal?"

On the other hand... they weren't around when the digital rights wars were fought so they don't understand what it took to get the few freedoms and choices that we enjoy today.

*shrugs*
Edited by NotUrAverageJoe - 7/17/12 at 11:52pm
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post #97 of 178
7/18/12 at 12:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitsoldier View Post

You say this, yet you never really explain what they did, other than saying, "They used API's to make it harder for other browsers to run."
Could you expand on this? Maybe give details as to what Microsoft did?
Did they intentionally throttle speeds on other browsers? Did they change the installation process for other browsers? Did they simply bundle IE with Windows?

If you want to know about it, read Section V: http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm#vb

An excerpt:
Quote:
91. Although Netscape declined the special relationship with Microsoft, its executives continued, over the weeks following the June 21 meeting, to plead for the RNA API. Despite Netscape's persistence, Microsoft did not release the API to Netscape until late October, i.e., as Allard had warned, more than three months later. The delay in turn forced Netscape to postpone the release of its Windows 95 browser until substantially after the release of Windows 95 (and Internet Explorer) in August 1995. As a result, Netscape was excluded from most of the holiday selling season.

92. Microsoft similarly withheld a scripting tool that Netscape needed to make its browser compatible with certain dial-up ISPs. Microsoft had licensed the tool freely to ISPs that wanted it, and in fact had cooperated with Netscape in drafting a license agreement that, by mid-July 1996, needed only to be signed by an authorized Microsoft executive to go into effect. There the process halted, however. In mid-August, a Microsoft representative informed Netscape that senior executives at Microsoft had decided to link the grant of the license to the resolution of all open issues between the companies. Netscape never received a license to the scripting tool, and as a result, was unable to do business with certain ISPs for a time.
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post #98 of 178
7/18/12 at 12:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotUrAverageJoe View Post

IMO, you're both right. Part of it is this new generation that didn't have to work hard for crap. Their idea of working hard would be an ideal situation to most born in even the early-mid 80's. They barely did without, which is why they don't mind over-paying for buggy, unfinished games or why they willingly submit to unethical DRM. When you grow up in the generation of excess your response to everything is "what's the big deal?"
On the other hand... they weren't around when the digital rights wars were fought so they don't understand what it took to get the few freedoms and choices that we enjoy today.
*shrugs*

Honestly, some of that blame needs to fall on the coders. Why does it take 2 to 3 times the system resources to do the same things we did in 2004. I'm not talkin about games because I know NOTHING about them, but if I were to sit you infront of my my PM with with CS3 and the appropriate applictions from the era you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between it an my MP with CS5 and approprate apllication doing the same tasks. The difference is the MP would be using almost twice the RAM.
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post #99 of 178
7/18/12 at 2:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post


Duckie...your points are valid but I think what we all are getting at is that ChromeOS/Android and Apple's OSes are pretty much in the same boat and they're not next on the list? I'm all for "justice" but that means the EU has to actually enforce that on more than just one pet project. So fine/punish MS; but don't stop there...the EU needs to carry out the letter of the law or be viewed as cronies. They either go after Google and Apple next or they shut the heck up because they don't have a leg to stand on.
When I had dial up the only browser I had was AOL....yeah I didn't even notice explorer. How was it MS's fault I was to stupid to know I had choices at that time?

 

 

As far as I remember, Opera filed a complaint against MS with the EU, the EU must then act on that complaint.

 

It is nothing to do with the EU going after MS.

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post #100 of 178
7/18/12 at 3:16am
That's like a lawsuit that has to go to one side confused.gif

Also, why can't MS file a complaint about ChromeOS and OS X?
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