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post #41 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

Right, the same patches can be applied to previous versions as well. That's how Debian patches a lot of it's stuff, though most programs don't do anything major when that happens. if it applies to your hardware, then it might be worth it. Xorg fixes stuff all the time, while breaking stuff all the time. However the thing is, the small stuff gets updated in Debian (probably other distros as well). The packages that you call "cave man" or whatever aren't really THAT important. That was my point, you don't need that bleeding edge, yet you dangle it over other distributions like it's some sort of high and mighty.
Maybe you should try other distributions that allow you to trim things down, get a little more perspective on the whole idea. I've ran Arch with the same bs that comes with a full fledged desktop, there was no major difference other than things being slightly more up to date. I've actually had more problems when I've compared them apples to apples with the same amount of software running than even Ubuntu. I do like how Arch lets you slim things down a lot easier, I just don't see it as any real speed increase. It's like hacking windows services, of course it runs faster as it's running less.

I've run every distribution ( aside from all the stupid ubuntu offshoots " Christian Ubuntu " anyone? ), but why bother with others? Arch is my system of choice, and pacman my package manager of choice, meaning Arch best suits me. I don't dangle bleeding edge over other distributions, I was simply stating my opinion which is what this whole thread was about. Have you read the older posts yet, or did you just hop in? At no point have I ever said anything is better than another in any way shape or form. I have simply stated why I like bleeding edge. Which I have also made clear in several posts. It's not my fault jrl got his panties in a bundle over me stating my opinion. And well, you always have your in a bundle, so that doesn't surprise me any.

And as I said earlier in this thread which you seemed to have missed. But let me repeat it for you;
Quote:
Not trying to make it out like Arch is the second coming. Just saying, the issues people think it has because of it's rolling release nature are, for the most part, non-existant.


P.S. You praise your distro as much as I praise mine. Don't try to act like we're so different.
post #42 of 63
Shrak how many mission critical systems do you run on Arch?
post #43 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainBlame View Post

Shrak how many mission critical systems do you run on Arch?

Irrelevant to the topic as OP isn't looking to manage a mission critical system, he wants to learn. Nor is it relevant to the discussion of what distro each of us run on our home boxes.

And the last mission critical system I ran was on LFS. Which was managed to be always up to date. And never fell victim to any of these stability / critical bug issues people seem to think exist and run rampant.
post #44 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Irrelevant to the topic as OP isn't looking to manage a mission critical system, he wants to learn. Nor is it relevant to the discussion of what distro each of us run on our home boxes.
And the last mission critical system I ran was on LFS. Which was managed to be always up to date. And never fell victim to any of these stability / critical bug issues people seem to think exist and run rampant.

true and i voiced my opinion on it, you started the bashing. i just said what i thought on it. Either way, he can do what he wants. For all we know he had his mind set on something and just wanted to see what we thought, that is the point of a forum.
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post #45 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

and just wanted to see what we thought

Well he certainly got that thumb.gif
post #46 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Irrelevant to the topic as OP isn't looking to manage a mission critical system, he wants to learn. Nor is it relevant to the discussion of what distro each of us run on our home boxes.

It's relevant to your comment that the issues people experience with rolling release is non existent. If it was non existent then we would use arch for mission critical. So obviously there are drawbacks to a rolling release system when it comes to stability.

While desktops aren't mission critical, some people like the stable approach so they can be more productive.

Note: When I say stable I'm not talking system crashing unstable, i'm referring to api/abi stable.
Edited by CaptainBlame - 7/23/12 at 5:13pm
post #47 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainBlame View Post

It's relevant to your comment that the issues people experience with rolling release is non existent. If it was non existent then we would use arch for mission critical. So obviously there are drawbacks to a rolling release system when it comes to stability.
While desktops aren't mission critical, some people like the stable approach so they can be more productive.

When properly administered the issues are non-existant. Unfortunately not every company hires experienced server admins. A lot of times they're kids fresh out of college with minimal *NIX experience. Which means they need to be stable enough for a monkey to be able to administrate. Hence going with distros with pay for support such as RHEL, or for distros that you can survive being beat by rocks and pissed on by the monkeys. Not saying all experienced admins have the same mindset as me in terms of my view on rolling release. But that's the beauty of Linux, a million ways to do 1 thing and all are technically right thumb.gif

I've also admistered many other ( maybe not quite 'mission critical' systems ) on other distro's and still take my own approach when it comes to managing updates/patches. And usually always go for a more up to date approach whenever I'm given free reign over the servers, and have yet to have a problem when doing so. Have used Gentoo, Slack, LFS, Arch, RHEL, Cent for each and mainly used to build everything from scratch for each ( one of the few reasons I never really got into using Slack for my home boxes, didn't want that much work/control at home ).
post #48 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

When properly administered the issues are non-existant. Unfortunately not every company hires experienced server admins. A lot of times they're kids fresh out of college with minimal *NIX experience. Which means they need to be stable enough for a monkey to be able to administrate. Hence going with distros with pay for support such as RHEL, or for distros that you can survive being beat by rocks and pissed on by the monkeys. Not saying all experienced admins have the same mindset as me in terms of my view on rolling release. But that's the beauty of Linux, a million ways to do 1 thing and all are technically right thumb.gif
I've also admistered many other ( maybe not quite 'mission critical' systems ) on other distro's and still take my own approach when it comes to managing updates/patches. And usually always go for a more up to date approach whenever I'm given free reign over the servers, and have yet to have a problem when doing so. Have used Gentoo, Slack, LFS, Arch, RHEL, Cent for each and mainly used to build everything from scratch for each ( one of the few reasons I never really got into using Slack for my home boxes, didn't want that much work/control at home ).

Or maybe paying an administrator by the hour is cheaper when you don't have to manually muck around with the system. It's the same reason why they don't do so much about people stealing cable TV these days. It's cheaper to let people take the cable TV than it is to send a tech out to do the job. If I were to set up a company and had admins working round the clock to administer updates I'd fire them and hire new ones, to do the job in an easier and simple manner. From a business standpoint it makes sense too. You already have large amount of devs working round the clock to make Debian, RH, Cent, all stable systems. Why on earth would I pay another tech to do the same thing just because they want to use their own distribution? I wouldn't and if anyone in management had half a brain they wouldn't let you.
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post #49 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

A lot of times they're kids fresh out of college with minimal *NIX experience. Which means they need to be stable enough for a monkey to be able to administrate. Hence going with distros with pay for support such as RHEL, or for distros that you can survive being beat by rocks and pissed on by the monkeys. Not saying all experienced admins have the same mindset as me in terms of my view on rolling release. .

Something tells me you have never seen a mission critical environment, where a company can lose millions with every downtime.
Edited by CaptainBlame - 7/23/12 at 6:44pm
post #50 of 63
The point is there is more to a companies IT systems then just the OS. You have 3rd party applications, inhouse developement etc. How are you going to control your dev/test environments and prod environments with a moving target OS. Unless you plan to host your own offline arch repos for dev/test and prod. In which case you are now doing release management. Except its highly unlikely you can cut quality well tested release and support it and get any real work done, plus third parties won't support it.

I'm not saying you have to pay for commercial OS support, support is there for managers to sleep at night. You could run mission critical on Debian, FreeBSD because they have stable releases.
Edited by CaptainBlame - 7/23/12 at 6:48pm
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