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Debian Wheezy installation questions

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
Currently on stable, seriously considering upgrading but I have a few questions that I can't seem to find straight answers to...

1) If I install Wheezy now, I gather I won't have to do anything when it does become stable. Is this correct?

2) Apparently I could upgrade my current installation simply by replacing "squeeze" with "wheezy" in my sources.list and then doing dist-upgrade... has anyone else done this and how reliable/error-prone/difficult is this method?

3) Does the current installer have "hd-media" support out of box, that is being able to install Debian off a DVD image on the hard drive?

4) Has anyone opted to just using backports on stable instead of upgrading to a newer release? If so, how well does that arrangement work? Do you do just select packages or all backports?

5) Not strictly Debian-related, but how's ext4 now? I've been using good'ol ext3 on all my systems (except Fedora where I'm on btrfs), I was originally scared of the issues that people had with it but I'd imagine it's mostly fixed up by now, plus this being a netbook I do always have a battery available in case I lose power.
post #2 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomfunk View Post

Currently on stable, seriously considering upgrading but I have a few questions that I can't seem to find straight answers to...
1) If I install Wheezy now, I gather I won't have to do anything when it does become stable. Is this correct?
2) Apparently I could upgrade my current installation simply by replacing "squeeze" with "wheezy" in my sources.list and then doing dist-upgrade... has anyone else done this and how reliable/error-prone/difficult is this method?
3) Does the current installer have "hd-media" support out of box, that is being able to install Debian off a DVD image on the hard drive?
4) Has anyone opted to just using backports on stable instead of upgrading to a newer release? If so, how well does that arrangement work? Do you do just select packages or all backports?
5) Not strictly Debian-related, but how's ext4 now? I've been using good'ol ext3 on all my systems (except Fedora where I'm on btrfs), I was originally scared of the issues that people had with it but I'd imagine it's mostly fixed up by now, plus this being a netbook I do always have a battery available in case I lose power.

1) I think Wheezy is in freeze to be moved to stable. During the freeze no new software can be added so they can focus on patches/stability. Short answer, yes you won't need to do anything as it's going to stay in this state for 6 months. Once out, it'll be classified as stable and only get security updates (patches, ect... no new software versions).

2) Probably, you might run into a removal of a bunch of different packages but I doubt you'll loose tty. Worst case you would have to apt-get to install some packages again. I'd still backup, unless you don't have any serious data outside of /home. In that case, if things get rough you can just use a liveCD and delete everything but /home and re-install (without formatting). I just recently did that because I forgot to make /home a separate partition.

3) what installer doesn't have hd-media (usb loaders anyone? same concept)? Honestly, that's not even required as the bootloader should have support for iso files. Put the iso somewhere, set it up in the bootloader, boot the iso, install. Much easier don't you think?

4) backports is nice, but unfortunately your stable will no longer be "stable". It's going to reach the EOL and soon enough backports will be for wheezy not squeeze. If you want, you could make your sources use stable instead of the release name and just do dist-upgrade. That should make backports work as well as allow you to never have to muck around with sources again. Also does the same thing in #2.

5) EXT4 is extremely good, you can actually convert (online if your bawlsy, I did it) ext3 to ext4 without much hassle. The only thing would be any old files wouldn't get some of the advantages of ext4 until they are re-created(basically written to, some ext4 things are set on file creation). Not much of a big deal, I guess. In fact, early days of EXT4 support in debian required a conversion from ext3. Until the installers got ext4 support that's all we had.
Edited by mushroomboy - 7/23/12 at 8:12pm
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post #3 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
3) what installer doesn't have hd-media (usb loaders anyone? same concept)? Honestly, that's not even required as the bootloader should have support for iso files. Put the iso somewhere, set it up in the bootloader, boot the iso, install. Much easier don't you think?
Vanilla 6.0.4 install media could not install off an ISO, I had to download the hd-media boot image separately (and it took a while for me to find out a such thing even existed). This was a bit of an issue since my crappy netbook has absolutely no USB boot capabilities, so I had to start the installation from Windows. But yea, if I can just boot it straight off GRUB I'll just do that.
post #4 of 10
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/ISOBoot

Or just use a guide, there is probably a plethora on google. wink.gif It's actually very nice, especially with devices that don't have usb/cd and you already have a system installed. Though you should try the new installer iso images, I'm guessing whatever problem you had no longer exists. Before that, I would try just editing your sources to wheezy first and do a dist-upgrade. If all doesn't go well, then go for more severe options.
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post #5 of 10
Thread Starter 
Beautiful.

Just a quick question, though: does the dist-upgrade method require a lot of free space? I ended up doing an overkill partitioning setup with separate /, /boot, /usr, /var, /tmp and /home. Both /var and /tmp are 5GB while /usr is 10GB, the latter being at 92% usage...
post #6 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomfunk View Post

Beautiful.
Just a quick question, though: does the dist-upgrade method require a lot of free space? I ended up doing an overkill partitioning setup with separate /, /boot, /usr, /var, /tmp and /home. Both /var and /tmp are 5GB while /usr is 10GB, the latter being at 92% usage...

It's the same as an upgrade except for it upgrades the entire system. It's only really there so that you can go from stable to testing, or testing to unstable. Or, if a new release comes out (such as this) you can go to the new stable. It's not really exactly like upgrade, as you really shouldn't use it unless you need to which is the case. You can't just use upgrade and make your sources point to the new release, things don't go very well. Last time I did that by mistake I ended up with a not so working system, I should have used dist-upgrade and I knew that too. Was just in a rush, had to get some other things working.
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post #7 of 10
Ok i'm to take on question two as i think mushroom may hve made a mistake

When wheezy is released, you can just change squeeze to wheezy in your list. Now, how ever, stable/wheezy dosn't exist so beyond changing squeeze to wheezy you'll have to change stable to testing. Testing is rolling so I don't think 'wheezy is in the name, but just google ' upgrading to testing' testing. Not wheezy, testng.

Now for a point to clearifi things, testing is rolling so once wheezy is released you'll still be using testing, not stable. For a couple of days they will be the same, making downgrading easy. Switch your repo list from testing to stable/wheezy (agian not sure of the real names, google will help) if you do not do this you will never be running wheezy stable. So to number 1 yes, you will have to do something

On reliablity, ask at the debian forums what has changed. Normaly theres a couple of filesystem changes to do manuly and a couple of broken packages.

Hope i helped, jrl
    
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post #8 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

Ok i'm to take on question two as i think mushroom may hve made a mistake
When wheezy is released, you can just change squeeze to wheezy in your list. Now, how ever, stable/wheezy dosn't exist so beyond changing squeeze to wheezy you'll have to change stable to testing. Testing is rolling so I don't think 'wheezy is in the name, but just google ' upgrading to testing' testing. Not wheezy, testng.
Now for a point to clearifi things, testing is rolling so once wheezy is released you'll still be using testing, not stable. For a couple of days they will be the same, making downgrading easy. Switch your repo list from testing to stable/wheezy (agian not sure of the real names, google will help) if you do not do this you will never be running wheezy stable. So to number 1 yes, you will have to do something
On reliablity, ask at the debian forums what has changed. Normaly theres a couple of filesystem changes to do manuly and a couple of broken packages.
Hope i helped, jrl

If you go by the names stable/testing/unstable it's always rolling as they NEVER change. squeeze (stable), wheezy (testing), sid (unstable) are just names for the release stages. sid is the only name that doesn't change, but if you use the branch names it never moves outside the stage. So if your sources say testing, your always testing, same with the others. That's what I was meaning earlier when I said you could point your sources to stable and never muck around with sources again.

though stable and testing aren't true rolling, as they have a shelf life. If you don't do a dist-upgrade after the freeze for testing you can muck up your system. Doesn't always happen, just can happen (probably will eventually, same with using stable in sources). To be more to the point, debian has a release cycle with 3 branches. A main branch (stable), a testing branch (obviously testing), and a beta branch (unstable). The experimental branch isn't a full branch and only exists for certain software releases (such as KDE when the new SC comes out). When you install one of them, your essentially installing that branch of the release cycle. It's exactly like google-chrome, except an entire distribution. When the time period ends a new release cycle comes out, testing freezes so they can get it shipped up to be the new stable. The only true rolling release cycle would be unstable as it never has time constraints.
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post #9 of 10
Yes, mint gets around this problem is LMDE by holding off on major changes and that until a certian point, the 'major update pack' and as such is semi-rolling release. This also protects agianst the brakes you might have using testing or unstable. Which is one thing the op will have to watch out for, brakes in certian packages now and then. You'll have to check before an update to make sure nothings broken at the moment. That will be if you stay on testing thou, now its frozen and pretty stable
    
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post #10 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl1357 View Post

Yes, mint gets around this problem is LMDE by holding off on major changes and that until a certian point, the 'major update pack' and as such is semi-rolling release. This also protects agianst the brakes you might have using testing or unstable. Which is one thing the op will have to watch out for, brakes in certian packages now and then. You'll have to check before an update to make sure nothings broken at the moment. That will be if you stay on testing thou, now its frozen and pretty stable

those major changes are being held off because testing goes into freeze. LMDE is based off debian testing, which means LMDE also goes through a freeze, when the new testing rolls out you get your "major update pack".

Honestly, your best bet is to keep debian release names if you want to be stable so you can use dist-upgrade and make sure everything upgrades when the next release hits. Testing doesn't really need this as you can update your whole system without dist-upgrade unless you go a decent amount of time during an update. Since I generally run testing/sid even when testing freezes I still get the sid updates. That keeps me from having any issues when the unfreeze comes about, though the more I think about it the more I believe you might just get away with testing and upgrade. I actually haven't ran a pure testing system in quite a few years, I always run mixed now.
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