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Mindchill vs Krow: All-In-One Liquid Chiller Build Off! - Page 5

post #41 of 161
Thread Starter 
Those PSUs are just place holders to make sure we have room.

The top one will probably be a 1200W extra length PSU. Probably a tough power or something. And the bottom will be a MicroPSU or something, because it just needs to run the fans and pump.
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post #42 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxbassplayerxx View Post

5.5GHz on a 3770K would require temperatures around -50C or so to be stable... mine is good for 5.6GHz at -70C for full threaded benching and 5.75GHz for 2D benching.
If you want to get into subzero stuff for the purpose of benching, a pot for dry ice would be you best move. If you want 24/7 with low temperatures and have a big budget, phase is a great path.
If you want temperatures around 0C for a 24/7 system and have ~$600 to drop on all the necessary pelt/watercooling materials, TEC is a good way to go. Note that the $600 includes the WC stuff for two loops. Direct die would be cheaper but is a bit more difficult.

As you can see, I have never done any below 0C overclocking, I would not know lol. I think DICE isn't the best for me, since there's lots of prep involved and it's only for like when you want to benchmark, no 24/7 usage. Phase seems ideal, but is way to expensive. One thing I don't understand is how TEC and water are related, "have ~$600 to drop on all the necessary pelt/watercooling materials, TEC is a good way to go." Water is like $300-$400 by itself, $600 is hard to swallow. What about the TEC machines by Coolit? They are all out of production but they seem cool
    
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post #43 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4rkr4in View Post

As you can see, I have never done any below 0C overclocking, I would not know lol. I think DICE isn't the best for me, since there's lots of prep involved and it's only for like when you want to benchmark, no 24/7 usage. Phase seems ideal, but is way to expensive. One thing I don't understand is how TEC and water are related, "have ~$600 to drop on all the necessary pelt/watercooling materials, TEC is a good way to go." Water is like $300-$400 by itself, $600 is hard to swallow. What about the TEC machines by Coolit? They are all out of production but they seem cool

You have to cool the tec. Thats where the water comes in.
post #44 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4rkr4in View Post

As you can see, I have never done any below 0C overclocking, I would not know lol. I think DICE isn't the best for me, since there's lots of prep involved and it's only for like when you want to benchmark, no 24/7 usage. Phase seems ideal, but is way to expensive. One thing I don't understand is how TEC and water are related, "have ~$600 to drop on all the necessary pelt/watercooling materials, TEC is a good way to go." Water is like $300-$400 by itself, $600 is hard to swallow. What about the TEC machines by Coolit? They are all out of production but they seem cool

If you go TEC, you need to go custom or else you won't even beat air temperatures. Basically explained, a TEC uses electricity to move heat from one side to the other. Once you have removed the heat from one side, the heat needs to be removed from the hot side. The most effective implementation of this is through the use of a TEC chiller. On one side, you have a waterloop as you normally would except for one thing: in place of a radiator, it has the cold side of a TEC with a water block. You then have a separate loop that uses the hot side of the TEC where the CPU block would normally be. The purpose of this loop is to dissipate the heat removed from the TEC through radiators.

As I mentioned in my first post, you can also do direct die cooling with a TEC. In this case, only one loop is needed. The TEC is mounted directly to the water block on the CPU. The cold side cools the CPU and the hot side is cooled by the water cooling loop. The only reason the chiller is preferred to this method is that it's more efficient.

If there's anything else to explain, I'll let some of the resident TEC guys take over. I'm pretty near to the extent of my TEC knowledge.
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post #45 of 161
Thread Starter 
Thanks a bunch Bass for stepping in! I'd +Rep but apparently I can't lol. You pretty much answered all the intro questions and anything more would be further exploration to someone who would be committed to TEC Cooling. Not sure why people keep thinking TECs are magic devices that take heat away and just absorb it. Although if such a device were created, you could heat your house through all of winter by releasing it later...

Anyhoo, time to get this thread back on track; my preliminary testing has been finished on an "unloaded" source. Due to problems encountered by rushing to get the cut pieces to me, we had to use premade 62mm plates, which are 12mm wider than the TEC. And since they're only about 3mm away from the surface of the heatsink, there is probably a feedback effect where they're absorbing some heat which is loading the TECs slightly. That will subtract from my delta a bit, so I think some insulating is needed on the plates to allow for as minimal interference as I can from the outside world.

All that being said, assuming it is able to move the amount of heat it needs to, this chiller seems to be exactly what I want.

Entire test assembly:



Yes, my reservoir is a Coke Zero bottle because the EK Res is as leaky as toilet paper under a waterfall... I cut holes for an inlet, outlet, and a spot for the Temperature sensor. The water in the bottle started at 37°C. I just ran hot water from the tap. Target temperature means nothing as the controller is not controlling the TECs. I didn't wanna go to all that trouble of wiring when I'm just testing full power settings anyway.

I ran it for 10 minutes (using my iPhone as a stop watch) and the water temperatures were dropped by 20°C. For some reason I didn't grab a picture of the 10 minute mark but it's not unbelievable; the water isn't a constant load and this thing is suppose to have a 30°C for about 200W.

After one hour, the final temperatures for the fans on medium (which are no louder than a graphics card half loaded, or a computer case that isn't designed to be quiet) [Heatsink/Water/Ambient]:



Before I switched the fans on high, just to see what maximum delta I could achieve, the display was changing between 10 and 11. Ambient temperatures did increase slightly because I started with 23.4°C.



I only let the fans run at maximum for 20mins but from previous testing on hot days, it wasn't going to get much better than this. Ambient increased slightly but I think the sensor is just finicky.

The next step is to go get some neoprene to put in between the coldplates and the heatsinks, and then to insulate the pop bottle and possibly the fittings, seeing as I'm using compression fittings that I will never use again. From here on out, its barbs, not only because they're easier to use, there's less metal exposed to the atmosphere and they won't be destroyed by pliers.

Once the tweaking is done, I'll drop by with another update. Enjoy!
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post #46 of 161
Don't throw away the compression fittings! Those things are expensive lol... I finally got two tongue.gif

I use 7/16" tubing with 1/2" tubing. It fits so snugly that you don't need clamps.
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post #47 of 161
Thread Starter 
I won't toss em, they'll be used on the block or something where looks matter biggrin.gif but they slice up my fingers and if it's snug, I have to use pliers that just mar up the grip surface.
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post #48 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krow View Post

I won't toss em, they'll be used on the block or something where looks matter biggrin.gif but they slice up my fingers and if it's snug, I have to use pliers that just mar up the grip surface.

Wrap the jaws of your pliers with electrical tape or (better yet) athletic tape. Still allows for grip, keeps the knurling and/or surface finish from getting messed up. It's a gunsmithing trick that I use quite often.
post #49 of 161
I use small cutting gloves with rubber palms. Helps the grip and saves the fingers.

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post #50 of 161
i am currently doing a new build and i want to have a go at tek cooling i am not after hihg overclocks but i am after low temps but not to low just above dew point
i want to keep it as cheap as possible ive got a 360 rad a dtek fuzion v2 cpu block dual bay res a lang ddc pump i would like to run it 24/7 the chip is a i5 2500k on a asrock z75 pro 3 that i might change to a z77 but the best board i could aford to use would be a asus rog v gen i can fit another 240 rad into the case as well the case is the nzxt 810 switch so if i havent got room in case i could have the rads external then size off rad wouldnt be a problem what other kite would i need
Edited by thanos999 - 8/31/12 at 2:43am
    
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