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[joystiq] Gabe Newell: Windows 8 is a 'catastrophe,' Adobe should try hat-based economy - Page 12

post #111 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by metal_gunjee View Post

I think most of you in this little Windows 8 fan club on OCN need to remember that there's a difference bewteen facts and opinions.
Too many of you are pushing your opinions all up in our faces like they are facts. Or is it that you guys some kind of desperate need for everyone to agree with you?

Welcome to OCN. During your stay you'll notice that not just on this subject but pretty much every subject, people try to force their opinions as facts. Windows X vs Windows Y, iOS vs Android, Dark chocolate vs White chocolate, and every subject in between.

Most also feel they need to express their opinion on a subject regardless of the topic of the thread. Such as with Apple threads. Instead of discussing the topic, such as the patent, court case, device, technology, etc... the whole thread just fills up with why people hate Apple, and rarely touch base with the real topic.

Then the complainers complain when someone complains about the complaining.
post #112 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Welcome to OCN. During your stay you'll notice that not just on this subject but pretty much every subject, people try to force their opinions as facts. Windows X vs Windows Y, iOS vs Android, Dark chocolate vs White chocolate, and every subject in between.
Most also feel they need to express their opinion on a subject regardless of the topic of the thread. Such as with Apple threads. Instead of discussing the topic, such as the patent, court case, device, technology, etc... the whole thread just fills up with why people hate Apple, and rarely touch base with the real topic.
Then the complainers complain when someone complains about the complaining.

Very well said. Sadly, after 3 years here, I know this all too well.

On topic though, I think Gabe's feelings about Windows 8 are bigger reasons for getting Steam rolling on Linux than just simply expanding things like any business typically would.
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post #113 of 129
Tried Windows 8 for the first time earlier tonight. Was actually looking forward to a new more streamlined GUI. Metro itself is decent but my main complaint is it's like half of two OSs combined into one. If you are changing GUIs, change GUIs. Don't have me constantly jumping between 2. I assume they did this for compatibility reasons but not even all the Windows applications use it. What the ****?
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post #114 of 129
I briefly tried out Windows 8, and I hated the new interface. I've decided just to buy Windows 7 when I have the cash.
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post #115 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by metal_gunjee View Post

Very well said. Sadly, after 3 years here, I know this all too well.
On topic though, I think Gabe's feelings about Windows 8 are bigger reasons for getting Steam rolling on Linux than just simply expanding things like any business typically would.

He's wanted to get it on Linux for a while now, I think his feelings about Win 8 is just going to help speed up the process. biggrin.gif

I for one, can't wait for it since I refuse to dual-boot, and while Wine is great and runs most of my games just as well in Linux as they'd run in Windows, it's just another middle-man that I really don't want to have to run.

And hopefully with the soon-to-be success of Steam on Linux, other publishers will see that there is plenty of money to be made and start making newer games for Linux ( porting old games would be a bonus too ).
post #116 of 129
So many gabe nut huggers and windows 8 haters in this thread.
What's going on.
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post #117 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT. Peppers View Post

So many gabe nut huggers and windows 8 haters in this thread.

The only thing I hate about windows 8 is the "GUI" If you can even call it that. Metro was not designed for kb/mouse and works best on a touchscreen. Fact.

Just give me the Win7 start bar/menu and I'll be happy...
post #118 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosire View Post

Well, it is.. It should have been a tablet only OS.

Nah, they should have expanded the Tablet PC stuff found in Windows 7 so if you run a tablet/go into tablet mode, it uses Metro and Metro like stuff (ie. Touch friendly) exclusively but otherwise it has the good old start menu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan View Post

This is getting silly. Windows 8 is a huge improvement...

Internally, yes, however the GUI completely negates any internal improvements for a number of people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Browncoat View Post

There was a learning curve of a couple of hours, but once I got the hang of the whole 'lack of Start Menu' thing you can generally navigate around a bit faster after sorting out your shortcuts, etc.

It is a wee bit different and I can see where people are coming from in relation to it being more 'tablet oriented' but it isn't majorly different from previous releases, excluding the start menu but with Stardock Start8, I find myself in more familiar grounds but with the better pinning and search functions.

It's a bit faster booting up compared to Windows 7 too but I won't be rushing to buy it but will probably use it as soon as I can due to getting it free from the MSDNAA.

Edit: I also think that the Metro style interface looks a lot cleaner and slicker than previous themes, especially with the Start8 start menu, I like all the straight lines compared to the whole 'aero' style.

Speak for yourself, it looks a lot smoother and nicer but really isn't faster for me at least. (Optimised Win7 setup and Semi-Optimised Win8, it's in a VM and I tend to have a go at it for a few hours a week but no-where as much as 7 and I'm still discovering things so it may get faster, but it's still annoying to use compared to 7.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

Honestly, just tried Windows 8, clicked on the desktop icon, and now I'm wondering what the big deal is? It's like an optimized Windows 7 with a new optional mode to use.

The only thing I used the start menu for was for typing in the names of things I wanted to open quickly, which you can still do.

As an example, open the control panel:
Windows key -> type control -> hit enter

Same exact steps as windows 7.

And if you (Like me and quite a few others) actually use the start menu, especially when you've pinned practically all the applications and (most) of the games you run then it becomes a lot slower until you get used to it...Even then, it's still not as fast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onex View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazarad View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onex View Post

Ironically thats the same arguement used over and over again.

how is that ironic
How? Because its the same arguement every single time.

It is on both sides, it's either "Metro sucks" or "You're scared of change".
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCScrub View Post

Who knew that changing the log in screen would be so controversial rolleyes.gif

It's a god-damn start menu, I still don't know where people got log in screen from. (As in, that's why people are unhappy)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven Dizzle View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan View Post

This is getting silly. Windows 8 is a huge improvement...

Stop trying. People are going to continue to convince themselves that they are right, regardless of fact.

This is true of both sides for something that is really subjective. MS screwed up here and (I think, at least) Windows 8 will screw up simply because of the massive changes, if MS had left the option for the old start menu in then all would be fine and dandy apart from the few ignorant people who didn't bother to actually look into it but apparently that's impossible. rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by HybridCore View Post

I wonder if he'll push the Steam for Linux project now that he's laid eyes and has formed opinions of Windows 8. We can only hope.

He probably has been for a bit now.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if it was merely on the backburner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Browncoat View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by royalflush5 View Post

Well, for one thing,MS is transforming their desktop OS into a walled garden, and if they wanted to they could block steam and shove GFWL down everyone's throats.

What a load of nonsense, how on earth do you work out that the OS is anything like a walled garden?

In no way are you restricted on downloading third-party programs from third-party sources.
In no way do applications require specific certificates or require to be signed by a specific entity.

Why on earth would they even contemplate blocking Steam?

GFWL doesn't even have the majority of games in existence, even for the most unqualified, incompetent vendor locking out digital distribution services is nothing short of insanity.

GFWL was the Microsoft answer for additional security measures, in my eyes it was very sloppy and annoying but that in no way hints that Microsoft are going to force anything on anyone.

If you hadn't noticed, Valve is trying to push more and more into the Linux market which if it does become popular they will be pretty much the main source of higher-end games for the majority of Linux users that use the platform for gaming.

Valve is definitely one of my favourite companies to currently be operating but this looks like nothing but a business statement for showing Valve being an early adopter in the push for the Linux platform.

If he felt so strongly about Windows 8 he would definitely come out and say, most of it is just conjecture and hearsay.

Small steps. MS could be merely inching closer to the walled garden with some things that move to it coming in each release; first it's Windows Store, then it's somehow making it more difficult to install 3rd party apps for "security reasons", then its completely blocking it unless its from the Windows Store, then its blocking third party marketplaces and bam! Walled garden.

Why wouldn't they? If they managed to get game companies and gamers to use Windows Store (They'd ditch GFWL as there's such a bad reputation against it already, hopefully) then they'd get the profit Steam currently gets; you can bet MS is viewing Steam as a competitor to the Windows Store.
Windows 8 won't be the walled garden, but it is possible that MS will make Windows 10 or Windows 11 into one. (I didn't think they would until I saw they were coming out with their own tablets)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pez View Post

I'm sure it's been said, but:

Windows XP - Good, and still widely used. SP1 did it wonders
WIndows Vista - Boooombed.
Windows 7 - Fantastic, 64-bit support even better, very few flaws from a normal user point of view
WIndows 8 - No personal experience, but I'm sensing a sort of flip-flop here wink.gif.

I think it will flop too, but not because of the cycle that keeps being said by ignorant people. Remember, 7 is merely an updated Vista (No, it doesn't run faster on old hardware unless you're meaning literally minimum specs which are far too low to adequately run it at a decent speed no matter how unoptimised the OS) and XP was really bad at first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkBlade6 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosire View Post

Well, it is.. It should have been a tablet only OS.
Metro should've been the UI of Windows tablet and Windows 8 should just be Windows 7 but faster and more stable (and some new features .. I guess) with no Metro UI or the possibility to disable it and go back to the windows button.

Desktop 8 should be Windows 8 but without Metro, but a new style of start menu. (ie. Like going from Classic to Aero in 7, not going from the Win7 start menu to Metro)
Quote:
Originally Posted by admflameberg View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Penguin View Post

...for tablets.
And Desktops when people is not throwing a hissy fit over the metro.

Unless you're one of the many people who wouldn't like Metro anyway.

UIs are very subjective things, what suits you in every way would probably be horrible or merely adequate for me to use; that's why I don't get why MS would push one UI on us all when..well, it's guaranteed that a lot of people won't like it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayleyne View Post

Yes i thought win 8 was Crap UNTIL I TRIED IT

So did I.

After I tried it, I thought it was horrible and that Microsoft really need to at least offer the option for different GUIs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalSavior View Post

I really don't see how Windows 8 is a catastrophe. How much of Steam's current library runs on Windows 8 vs Linux? Linux would seem to be the catastrophe in its current state. Secondly, I really don't get the hate for Windows 8. Metro? Really? How much time could you spending looking at the start menu? If it's a significant portion of your computing time you may need to be checked for a mental deficiency.

Not really; if you organise the smart menu correctly then it's a lot faster than nearly any other method of shortcuts bar having them on the taskbar which takes up screen real-estate; it's a fair enough trade off. Those acting like their way of using a computer is the way to do it and that there are no other ways to use one correctly really need to "be checked for a mental deficiency." wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorched912 View Post

Windows 8 totally reminds me of Windows Vista, anyone feel this way?

I don't, Vista was an under-rated gem once SP1 was out. Short of SP1 giving us an option for the old start menu, I don't see 8 being an under-rated gem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayleyne View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Use View Post

Of course not.
I never held a tablet in my hand and I don't own any consoles. If steam gets on Linux ill be very happy in the mean time I welcome Windows 8 even if Metro sucks.

Metro really isn't that bad tbh, It's sort of like a Second desktop if you will, I've gotten used to it in the shortime i've had it, instead of having my start menu as a start menu, I can simply have all my apps Tiled infront of me and pick and choose what i want.

Pin to start menu and you have practically the same thing without the wasted space that you don't need for a precise input device like a mouse and keyboard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by warr10r View Post

It doesn't actually matter whether Win8 will be crap or not. It seriously does matter that Valve is making Steam for Ubuntu. This means low budget gamers (there are a LOT of these kids worldwide) will not need Windows at all to run AAA games. Millions will simply migrate away from Windows altogether because it will simply be not worth the cash just to play games. All of a sudden M$ will see that their monopoly doesn't quite look so dominant.

Yet all it will take is one single block buster these kids want to play that is not supported by Linux and all of a sudden, we're back to square one.

Not in the developing world, it'd cost them so much to get that one game that they'd merely leave it, unless there was a significant number of games. Either that, or they'd merely pirate both Windows and the game itself; not many people in Africa or the like would buy a copy of Windows and then that one game they want just to play that one game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteCrane View Post

I don't understand. How will Windows 8 harm OEM's? How does it harm PC space?

It's moving MS in a position where they could slowly transfer to a walled garden, like Apple. Do you think it's a coincidence that they're making their own tablets, a Windows store, etc? It's all speculation but it definitely looks like they're moving to a much more Apple like product line. (ie. You run MS hardware, MS software and MS peripherals) It makes sense as if they pulled it off, they'd have a much higher marketshare than Apple but the same massive profit margins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT. Peppers View Post

So many people with differing opinions to others in this thread.

I hate to quote reddit, but FTFY.

Man, this posts too damn long, have a tl;dr: MS should really offer an option to have classic, win7 and metro start menus/GUIs, Linux Steam will almost definitely take off due to the amount of developing countries that can't afford legal copies of Windows and people have differing opinions on GUIs so while Metro might be great for some, it'll be horrible for others and average for even more others.
post #119 of 129
OCN servers must hate Brutuz tongue.gif
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post #120 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkin93 View Post

Once my entire steam library is available on Linux, I'll drop windows forever.
Until then...

right after i read your post i looked at your avatar lol so it registered in my brain

Once my entire steam library is available on Linux, I'll drop windows forever.
Until then...BE ADVISED!

anyway yes Gabe is right windows 8 is so bad its not even funny you can tell MS doesn't care about desktop users anymore all they seem to care about is tablet and mobile devices.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Software, Programming and Coding › Operating Systems › [joystiq] Gabe Newell: Windows 8 is a 'catastrophe,' Adobe should try hat-based economy