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post #1591 of 15506
Thread Starter 
Yeh i did ill get some pics up tomorrow when i get some time. Sorry been a bit overloaded at this end.
post #1592 of 15506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post

Yeh i did ill get some pics up tomorrow when i get some time. Sorry been a bit overloaded at this end.

This is great!!

Don't worry you can take your time thumb.gif
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post #1593 of 15506
Thread Starter 
UPDATE : PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT Working, Tygon E1000 Working. "DEHP" free tubing is recommended for use with Mayhems pastel coolants.

What is DEHP

First off the EU has been pushing to ban "DEHP" (since 2011) in medical equipment for the last few years and finally manufacturers are now taking up the proposals. The ban if it goes though will be enforced with in the next few years so if manufactures don't move over they could find them facing some severe penalties if and only if the proposals go though.

DEHP is highly lipophilic (fat soluble). When used in PVC plastic, DEHP is loosely chemically bonded to the plastic and readily leaches into blood or other lipid-containing solutions in contact with the plastic. In water Cooling terms "DEHP" is what has been causing Gumming up of water cooling blocks for years and people have been wrongly blaming the coolants because of this. When "DEHP" reaches temps of around 38c and above the leaching process is exasperated in our findings and this is when problems start to occur. Also the use of some biocides also do not help and cause the "DEHP" to leach at a faster rate.

The reason why some people do not have a issue and some do is all down to the temperature of the liquid inside your system. The hotter your water is the more apparent the problem becomes. E,g If running a 2 x 120mm rad on a system that has a GPU and CPU block then the risk of "DEHP" leaching is higher than is running the same system on a 3 x 120mm rad with the same fan speeds and though put.

Some sources of information for you ->

DEHP - the penis shrinking chemical -> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/06/24/europe-bans-penis-shrinking-chemical-america-does-not.aspx
Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bis(2-ethylhexyl)_phthalate
DEHP Information centre - http://www.dehp-facts.com/RA

There are many forms of tubing out there and "DEHP" is in a lot of them. Tubing that is "DEHP Free" is not a cheap as tubing that contains "DEHP" how ever would you rather spend a few pounds, euros or dollars more on some thing that is going to help keep your system clean and gum free. the choice is yours.

Primochill we salute you for leading the way smile.gif.
Edited by Mayhem - 2/20/13 at 6:39pm
post #1594 of 15506
Very informative.

Thanks for this.

I vote to have this as a sticky, note or something.
post #1595 of 15506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post

UPDATE : PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT Working, Tygon E1000 Working. "DEHP" free tubing is recommended for use with Mayhems pastel coolants.

What is DEHP

First off the EU has been pushing to ban "DEHP" (since 2011) in medical equipment for the last few years and finally manufacturers are now taking up the proposals. The ban if it goes though will be enforced with in the next few years so if manufactures don't move over they could find them facing some severe penalties if and only if the proposals go though.

DEHP is highly lipophilic (fat soluble). When used in PVC plastic, DEHP is loosely chemically bonded to the plastic and readily leaches into blood or other lipid-containing solutions in contact with the plastic. In water Cooling terms "DEHP" is what has been causing Gumming up of water cooling blocks for years and people have been wrongly blaming the coolants because of this. When "DEHP" reaches temps of around 38c and above the leaching process is exasperated in our findings and this is when problems start to occur. Also the use of some biocides also do not help and cause the "DEHP" to leach at a faster rate.

The reason why some people do not have a issue and some do is all down to the temperature of the liquid inside your system. The hotter your water is the more apparent the problem becomes. E,g If running a 2 x 120mm rad on a system that has a GPU and CPU block then the risk of "DEHP" leaching is higher than is running the same system on a 3 x 120mm rad with the same fan speeds and though put.

Some sources of information for you ->

DEHP - the penis shrinking chemical -> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/06/24/europe-bans-penis-shrinking-chemical-america-does-not.aspx
Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bis(2-ethylhexyl)_phthalate
DEHP Information centre - http://www.dehp-facts.com/RA

There are many forms of tubing out there and "DEHP" is in a lot of them. Tubing that is "DEHP Free" is not a cheap as tubing that contains "DEHP" how ever would you rather spend a few pounds, euros or dollars more on some thing that is going to help keep your system clean and gum free. the choice is yours.

Primochill we salute you for leading the way smile.gif.

Oh no penis shrinking better not use it
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post #1596 of 15506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post

UPDATE : PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT Working, Tygon E1000 Working. "DEHP" free tubing is recommended for use with Mayhems pastel coolants.

What is DEHP

First off the EU has been pushing to ban "DEHP" (since 2011) in medical equipment for the last few years and finally manufacturers are now taking up the proposals. The ban if it goes though will be enforced with in the next few years so if manufactures don't move over they could find them facing some severe penalties if and only if the proposals go though.

DEHP is highly lipophilic (fat soluble). When used in PVC plastic, DEHP is loosely chemically bonded to the plastic and readily leaches into blood or other lipid-containing solutions in contact with the plastic. In water Cooling terms "DEHP" is what has been causing Gumming up of water cooling blocks for years and people have been wrongly blaming the coolants because of this. When "DEHP" reaches temps of around 38c and above the leaching process is exasperated in our findings and this is when problems start to occur. Also the use of some biocides also do not help and cause the "DEHP" to leach at a faster rate.

The reason why some people do not have a issue and some do is all down to the temperature of the liquid inside your system. The hotter your water is the more apparent the problem becomes. E,g If running a 2 x 120mm rad on a system that has a GPU and CPU block then the risk of "DEHP" leaching is higher than is running the same system on a 3 x 120mm rad with the same fan speeds and though put.

Some sources of information for you ->

DEHP - the penis shrinking chemical -> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/06/24/europe-bans-penis-shrinking-chemical-america-does-not.aspx
Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bis(2-ethylhexyl)_phthalate
DEHP Information centre - http://www.dehp-facts.com/RA

There are many forms of tubing out there and "DEHP" is in a lot of them. Tubing that is "DEHP Free" is not a cheap as tubing that contains "DEHP" how ever would you rather spend a few pounds, euros or dollars more on some thing that is going to help keep your system clean and gum free. the choice is yours.

Primochill we salute you for leading the way smile.gif.

Mayhem are you pushing hotter than usual coolant temperatures to accelerate the process?
post #1597 of 15506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post

UPDATE : PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT Working, Tygon E1000 Working. "DEHP" free tubing is recommended for use with Mayhems pastel coolants.

What is DEHP

First off the EU has been pushing to ban "DEHP" (since 2011) in medical equipment for the last few years and finally manufacturers are now taking up the proposals. The ban if it goes though will be enforced with in the next few years so if manufactures don't move over they could find them facing some severe penalties if and only if the proposals go though.

DEHP is highly lipophilic (fat soluble). When used in PVC plastic, DEHP is loosely chemically bonded to the plastic and readily leaches into blood or other lipid-containing solutions in contact with the plastic. In water Cooling terms "DEHP" is what has been causing Gumming up of water cooling blocks for years and people have been wrongly blaming the coolants because of this. When "DEHP" reaches temps of around 38c and above the leaching process is exasperated in our findings and this is when problems start to occur. Also the use of some biocides also do not help and cause the "DEHP" to leach at a faster rate.

The reason why some people do not have a issue and some do is all down to the temperature of the liquid inside your system. The hotter your water is the more apparent the problem becomes. E,g If running a 2 x 120mm rad on a system that has a GPU and CPU block then the risk of "DEHP" leaching is higher than is running the same system on a 3 x 120mm rad with the same fan speeds and though put.

Some sources of information for you ->

DEHP - the penis shrinking chemical -> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/06/24/europe-bans-penis-shrinking-chemical-america-does-not.aspx
Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bis(2-ethylhexyl)_phthalate
DEHP Information centre - http://www.dehp-facts.com/RA

There are many forms of tubing out there and "DEHP" is in a lot of them. Tubing that is "DEHP Free" is not a cheap as tubing that contains "DEHP" how ever would you rather spend a few pounds, euros or dollars more on some thing that is going to help keep your system clean and gum free. the choice is yours.

Primochill we salute you for leading the way smile.gif.

Interesting, so it sounds like DEHP is in all sorts of plastic including plastic bottles. Not just tubing it sounds like it is in most all plastics including the fluid bottles we use. They said some medical tubing is almost 80% this stuff by weight.

Probably in the acrylic and acetal plastics we have in block too?
    
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post #1598 of 15506
Thread Starter 
@Systemlord Yeh we have done accelerated testing to see what the main issues were and what caused leaching. We have also tested the DEHP in the same situations (this has been going on now for over 9 months of testing.

Test was done like so ->

All tubing was tested using the following procedures.

• Clean sterile glass containers

• A) 25c constant temp with stirrer
• B) 35c constant temp with stirrer
• C) 45c constant temp with stirrer

• 1) Ultra Pure water @ 0.01TDS / 0.01Us
• 2) 20% Vegetable extract, 80% UPW (5% to 15% is normally used in premixes)
• 3) 20% Ethylene Glycol, 80% UPW (5% to 15% is normally used in premixes)
• 4) 20% Propylene Glycol, 80% UPW (5% to 15% is normally used in premixes)
• 5) 20% Potassium Formate, 80% UPW (5% to 15% is normally used in premixes)
• 6) 100% UPW, Silver Kill Coil
• 7) 100% UPW, 5 drops of Biocide Extreme
• 8) 100% UPW, 5 drops of Biocide Extreme, Silver Kill Coil
• 9) 100% tap water
• 10 )100% Halfords DI water

* Later on we started testing Pastel Ice White. to see its effects.

Each 10mm peace of tube from the different manufacturers had to go though all of these tests. We've only tested id say about 5% of the markets tubing as it basically became a mammoth task so we just took some select samples and spent the last few months going though it all to see what the real issues were. So there was a total of 10 tests at 3 different temps each test was run for 5 hours in total. We took measurements before and after each test and checked under the microscope the tubing as each market point to see how much was leached out of the plastic. We then left the tube for 48 hours in a sealed container and re checked it to see if it had reformed back.

We came to the simple conclusion heat is the main issue followed by biocide used. We would love to have more time to investigate but these tests were done for us and us alone to find out what the issues are so we can better understand our users concerns and support you guys better with real world knowledge and a better understanding. Also to see if we needed to adjust out mixtures at all.

It would be nice to see some real scientific studies into this but alas we cannot afford to do such tests and im sure no one else out there is prepared to throw money at such testing.

@Martinm210 DEHP is in a lot of stuff but if you speak to manufacturers of bottles you can get it with out it. I know ours do not contain it as this is some thing i checked early on. Also if you check out some posts by me on XS from a good few years ago i said that certain 25 Ltr jerry cans we had been making liquids in seemed to have a high PPM count compared to other barrels. We found out this was due to DEHP and leaching.

What people need to remember though is DEHP is a plasticizer and all that is happening is DEHP is being replaced by a different plasticizer so again this issue may rear its ugly head but in a different form later on. We will just have to sit back and see what happens.
Edited by Mayhem - 2/21/13 at 11:22am
post #1599 of 15506
Interesting, thanks for doing all that work. thumb.gif Heat does make sense and probably why I have never run into it. A greater than 5c delta just doesn't happen when I run a quad rad per component..smile.gif

This is probably why they also recommend against using a microwave to heat foods inside plastic containers. All that crap just bakes into your food too.
    
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post #1600 of 15506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post

@Systemlord Yeh we have done accelerated testing to see what the main issues were and what caused leaching. We have also tested the DEHP in the same situations (this has been going on now for over 9 months of testing.

Test was done like so ->

All tubing was tested using the following procedures.

• Clean sterile glass containers

• A) 25c constant temp with stirrer
• B) 35c constant temp with stirrer
• C) 45c constant temp with stirrer

• 1) Ultra Pure water @ 0.01TDS / 0.01Us
• 2) 20% Vegetable extract, 80% UPW (5% to 15% is normally used in premixes)
• 3) 20% Ethylene Glycol, 80% UPW (5% to 15% is normally used in premixes)
• 4) 20% Propylene Glycol, 80% UPW (5% to 15% is normally used in premixes)
• 5) 20% Potassium Formate, 80% UPW (5% to 15% is normally used in premixes)
• 6) 100% UPW, Silver Kill Coil
• 7) 100% UPW, 5 drops of Biocide Extreme
• 8) 100% UPW, 5 drops of Biocide Extreme, Silver Kill Coil
• 9) 100% tap water
• 10 )100% Halfords DI water

* Later on we started testing Pastel Ice White. to see its effects.

Each 10mm peace of tube from the different manufacturers had to go though all of these tests. We've only tested id say about 5% of the markets tubing as it basically became a mammoth task so we just took some select samples and spent the last few months going though it all to see what the real issues were. So there was a total of 10 tests at 3 different temps each test was run for 5 hours in total. We took measurements before and after each test and checked under the microscope the tubing as each market point to see how much was leached out of the plastic. We then left the tube for 48 hours in a sealed container and re checked it to see if it had reformed back.

We came to the simple conclusion heat is the main issue followed by biocide used. We would love to have more time to investigate but these tests were done for us and us alone to find out what the issues are so we can better understand our users concerns and support you guys better with real world knowledge and a better understanding. Also to see if we needed to adjust out mixtures at all.

It would be nice to see some real scientific studies into this but alas we cannot afford to do such tests and im sure no one else out there is prepared to throw money at such testing.

@Martinm210 DEHP is in a lot of stuff but if you speak to manufacturers of bottles you can get it with out it. I know ours do not contain it as this is some thing i checked early on. Also if you check out some posts by me on XS from a good few years ago i said that certain 25 Ltr jerry cans we had been making liquids in seemed to have a high PPM count compared to other barrels. We found out this was due to DEHP and leaching.

What people need to remember though is DEHP is a plasticizer and all that is happening is DEHP is being replaced by a different plasticizer so again this issue may rear its ugly head but in a different form later on. We will just have to sit back and see what happens.

And this is why I choose mayhems coolant over all the others, great coolant and constant testing.
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