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[Neo] Steam adjusts subscriber agreement to prevent class action lawsuits - Page 8

post #71 of 86
People forget what STEAM's policy was before. If you brought them into court over anything they'd shut down your account and take all your games. Now not only do they allow you to take them to small claims, but they'll pay some of your legal bills, and they said they are adding a dispute process if you want a refund on a game.

Before, say you bought a horrible console port that was 100% unplayable, and you asked Valve for a refund and they say no like they do 95% of the time. You bring consumer protection into it(EU) you lose your account, you go to small claims(US) you lose your account.

Now, they have(or will be adding) a dispute resolution problem just for this kind of issue, doesn't mean much until people start using it, but it shows that they realize that this is an issue and they are addressing it. And now not only are you not going to get banned and lose your games if you go to small claims but they help with the bills. Nothing has changed about class action lawsuits, they still don't allow it and if you read you'd see it's because they feel the consumers have a better chance of getting their way if everyone individually goes to small claims.
    
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post #72 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlasov_581 View Post

right.......locking games up with their drm.....never said ANYTING about ANY type of DRM......a company wanting to protect their game?......i find nothing wrong with that, as long as it works and DOES NOT create problems for users WHO ACTUALLY BOUGHT THE GAME........NEVER ran into any issue with any game for as long as i had steam......ever!.....now standard you say? please see EA and their CHEAP ASS Steam knock off Origin
Security threat you say?.....Sony had it the worst, and what did they say?....oh everything is ok, nothing to worry about, move along nothing to see, and yet this is a PAYED online subscription service with alot of other applications besides gaming
Rehashes?.....gee lets see.....how many companies do this?.......yet it became a standard since people ate it up biggrin.gif big smile...BIG SMILE.....also see Bethesda with their Fallout 3/New Vegas........and Activision's Call of Duty 4.......5.......6.......7.......8 and most likely 9

LOL! Sony did not have the worst security threat by far, you know any one that lost money off of their credit cards because of it?
Go ask 360s users the same thing (that's still going on...)
post #73 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

You have a point and you don't. Consumers have the responsibility to NOT purchase something if they are even slightly uncomfortable with the terms or service. That's part of the reason I never bought a console this time around. It wasn't as big as being poor at the time but I wasn't comfortable with the huge internet dependence and the wording of the EULA. I agree consumers have rights...but those rights are born from a responsibility...not an entitlement. No one forces you to buy into any of these products. But all these consumers act like they are or that they have an entitlement to be lazy. So don't attack someone for having grown up and understanding what it's like to be an adult.
That said. We'll see how this turns out. Trust but verify...
^THIS. You'd think people would notice that from all those "1-800-BAD-Drug" Ads. Class action sometimes is good but I've noticed a lot of law firms milk it for their own gain and not the consumers. Only class action lawsuit I ever got something that actually fixed (not pay me just $5) the problem was one against Samsung for them shipping out TVs with a defective remote apparently.
Ultimately, consumers need to realize that companies wouldn't come out with these "awful, horrible, no good" EULAs if consumers actually went "Hey...change these terms or I'm not paying/playing your game." It's like consumers are just too lazy to take responsibility for themselves and so when they get taken advantage of they complain to Mom(the government/courts) and shirk the responsibilities further demanding someone else take care of things for them. The easiest way to bring a company to the table...is not give it money.

I have a 100% point. A Subscriber Agreement like this, XBL and PSN doesn't supercede law. There is nothing about "researching your product" and that other utter crap argument that can counter act a company getting hacked and losing sensitive information. Sure, they can't help getting hacked no liability there, but when they store information in plain text that's just wrong and they're liable. Sony, Steam, et al, all changed their agreements to prohibit action against them after the fact. Which basically gives them the green light to make the same mistakes but this time come out smelling of roses.

Furthermore, there is absolutely NOTHING right about his argument of expecting consumers to "research products" and all that crap. Nothing. No merit at all. Consumers have protection laws for a reason. While, yeah, you can't just expect a product to do something it was never stated to do, or isn't within the realm of possibility, you should always have the ability to have an issue resolved. Without consumer protection laws we'd all be spending lots of money on unnecessary things. Consumer protection is a great thing.

To top it off, an EULA and these SA's aren't legally binding and don't come above the law of the land. They're not worth the ink they're written with.
Edited by Rubers - 8/1/12 at 10:56am
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post #74 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehotshot View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post

doh.gif
You miss the point. It would be considered - and has been considered - a negative if any other company were to do it.

If in EA's eula it said the same thing as steam, then I wouldn't care. But EA's eula says they have the right to search your entire computer and you can't sue them for any reason.

That is completely different than just saying "no frivolous lawsuits for transaction disputes and you must selttle in small claims court instead". If that is all they said, then I would be fine with Origin.
So you still miss the point.
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post #75 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post

So you still miss the point.

Your point being if EA did this then everyone would throw a fit? Maybe, but I wouldn't.

Although like I said and PROVED, EA's eula says they can search your computer and you CANNOT SUE THEM IN COURT. And that is completely different than what steam has in their eula.
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post #76 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehotshot View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post

So you still miss the point.

Your point being if EA did this then everyone would throw a fit? Maybe, but I wouldn't.
Well congratulations, then. Make the others follow suit, because they sure as hell aren't doing so in this thread.
Quote:
Although like I said and PROVED, EA's eula says they can search your computer and you CANNOT SUE THEM IN COURT. And that is completely different than what steam has in their eula.
Your strawman arguments don't mean anything to this discussion.
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post #77 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post

Well congratulations, then. Make the others follow suit, because they sure as hell aren't doing so in this thread.
Your strawman arguments don't mean anything to this discussion.

lol strawman argument. That argument had nothing to do with the question about EA and people caring. It was responding to your quote where you told me EA's eula doesn't say that when it says those exact words.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by amtbr View Post

EA's eula says no such thing, just read the damn thing yourself instead of believing biased gaming news websites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehotshot View Post

It says exactly those two things.
http://eacom.s3.amazonaws.com/EULA_Origin_8.24.11.pdf
Quote:
YOU UNDERSTAND THAT BY THIS PROVISION, YOU AND EA ARE FOREGOING THE RIGHT TO SUE IN COURT AND HAVE A JURY TRIAL
Quote:
information that EA
collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer
(including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as
information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful
installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware.

So no, it's not a strawman argument when I just proved your statment wrong.
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post #78 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehotshot View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post

Well congratulations, then. Make the others follow suit, because they sure as hell aren't doing so in this thread.
Your strawman arguments don't mean anything to this discussion.

lol strawman argument. That argument had nothing to do with the question about EA and people caring. It was responding to your quote where you told me EA's eula doesn't say that when it says those exact words.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by amtbr View Post

EA's eula says no such thing, just read the damn thing yourself instead of believing biased gaming news websites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehotshot View Post

It says exactly those two things.
http://eacom.s3.amazonaws.com/EULA_Origin_8.24.11.pdf
Quote:
YOU UNDERSTAND THAT BY THIS PROVISION, YOU AND EA ARE FOREGOING THE RIGHT TO SUE IN COURT AND HAVE A JURY TRIAL
Quote:
information that EA
collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer
(including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as
information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful
installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware.

So no, it's not a strawman argument when I just proved your statment wrong.
I didn't say any such thing, thank you very much. You are just wasting time now.
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post #79 of 86
I once won a class action lawsuit against a former company I worked for, It cost me $10 for the application fee, and I won $1.27. If everyone and there grandmother files with the class action suit the amount of money you will see drastically goes down, unless you're the lawyer, or the person who hired the lawyer.
Edited by Philliesfan - 8/1/12 at 12:39pm
post #80 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by icehotshot View Post

doh.gif
It says exactly those two things.
http://eacom.s3.amazonaws.com/EULA_Origin_8.24.11.pdf

The right to a jury trial portion you highlighted is for arbitration, that is not the same as what you said, "you can't sue them for any reason." So you can sue them, just not in court and before a jury. Arbitration is the same as "suing" someone, it winds up in a legally binding and fully enforceable judgment.

You also stated "they have the right to search your entire computer" then you selectively quoted the EULA. Now if you quoted or read the entire EULA, it gives EA the right to collect non-personally identifiable information that includes "includes technical and related information that identifies your computer(including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware." Now I don't know about you, but the way I read this doesn't indicate that they "have the right to search your entire computer." But I suppose we have differing opinions...

Now if you read EA's Privacy Policy relating to non-personally identifiable information it sates: "When you use EA online and mobile products and services or you play our games on your PC or game system, we may collect certain non-personally identifiable information for purposes including improving our products and services, troubleshooting bugs, providing services to you, facilitating the provision of software updates, dynamically served content and product support as well as communicating with you. The non-personal information collected may include demographic information including gender, age, zip code, information about your computer, hardware, software, platform, game system, media, mobile device, including unique device IDs or other device identifiers, incident data, Internet Protocol (IP) address, network Media Access Control (MAC) address and connection. We also collect other non-personal information such as username, user ID or persona, feature usage, game play statistics, scores and achievements, user rankings and click paths as well as other data that you may provide in surveys, via your account preferences and online profiles such as friends lists or purchases, for instance. We may also receive either non-personal or public information from third parties in connection with market and demographic studies and/or other data that we use to supplement personal information provided directly by you."

That doesn't qualify as "searching your entire computer" either...
Edited by amtbr - 8/1/12 at 2:12pm
    
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