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post #241 of 267
I don't buy it, copying one's consciousness or "soul" does not seem possible to me. It would be the same thing as if someone made an exact clone of you, it would resemble and share the same memory's as you but it still wouldn't be "you". I personally believe based on my own perspective that consciousness and the soul is one thing that science will truly never be able to emulate or completely understand as it is beyond our senses, it is the whole essence of the human condition and if you think about it "you" can't be in two body's at the same time, the body is the seat of the soul.

I think that if this ever did go through scientists would come to realize that the emulated version of the human doesn't have a consciousness and it in essence an empty robot while the original form retains a soul and thus a consciousness. A consciousness/soul is unique to each individual person and cannot be copied.

Anyways, I definitely wouldn't want to be immortal, life itself is suffering and impermanent not to mention all that this is doing is adhering to the survivalist nature of the standard conditioned human mind. All that this technology shows to me is how much clinging humans do to life itself and therefore suffer and will continue to suffer due to their ignorance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTERPRISE View Post

No such thing as immortality in a physical sense in my opinion. You would only be delaying the inevitable. We all change, that is the only one constant, you cannot preserve a human or the true essence of a human being inevitably. We are meant to die and change into a different form of energy. Otherwise our lives and the essence of our lives would become diluted, I would rather die than linger on. I guess it all comes down to each person Philosophical beliefs, but this would not be me. To die and be remembered for what I truly was and what I had achieved is what I want. Existence in one form should be finite, otherwise how do we define ourselves ? The time by which we are limited to is our pushing factor to achieve and to better ourselves. With an Infinite existence you take away one if not the largest fundamental points of what makes us Human.

As far as I see it, while we may not stay in one singular form, we are all immortal, we simply change. Nothing truly dies.

This exactly, people that have an understanding of interdependence would understand that we truly are immortal and that this concept of "birth and death" are actually false and should not exist. All that "death" is, is the changing from being a human being conditioned to your own genetics to another form unless you're one of the few that can escape your own genetics and develop a great understanding of what existence is.

People are afraid to die because they are conditioned by their genetics to want to continue to grow and expand them, in a sense they cling to their own human condition when in fact all conditions lead to suffering in the end. In fact, there is nothing to fear in this thing we call death as it is the transfer from one state of being to another, this isn't even diving into the idea of reincarnation which has been scientifically studied and even supported by evidence and which should also be common sense to most people as if you can be born once why cant you be born again just in the seat of another body?

I hate to point to a philosophy but this really points to Buddhism about how far in great lengths that people will go and how much suffering they will undertake (researching and work, not being happy with their present state) to try to extend their human conditioning vs being happy, content, and peaceful with the present instead of being afraid of "death" and being a slave to your own genetics and clinging to them vs developing a great understanding of what reality really is.
Edited by Mwarren - 8/13/12 at 9:17pm
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post #242 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwarren View Post

I don't buy it, copying one's consciousness or "soul" does not seem possible to me. It would be the same thing as if someone made an exact clone of you, it would resemble and share the same memory's as you but it still wouldn't be "you". I personally believe based on my own perspective that consciousness and the soul is one thing that science will truly never be able to emulate or completely understand as it is beyond our senses, it is the whole essence of the human condition and if you think about it "you" can't be in two body's at the same time, the body is the seat of the soul.
I think that if this ever did go through scientists would come to realize that the emulated version of the human doesn't have a consciousness and it in essence an empty robot while the original form retains a soul and thus a consciousness. A consciousness/soul is unique to each individual person and cannot be copied.
Anyways, I definitely wouldn't want to be immortal, life itself is suffering and impermanent not to mention all that this is doing is adhering to the survivalist nature of the standard conditioned human mind. All that this technology shows to me is how much clinging humans do to life itself and therefore suffer and will continue to suffer due to their ignorance.
This exactly, people that have an understanding of interdependence would understand that we truly are immortal and that this concept of "birth and death" are actually false and should not exist. All that "death" is, is the changing from being a human being conditioned to your own genetics to another form unless you're one of the few that can escape your own genetics and develop a great understanding of what existence is.
People are afraid to die because they are conditioned by their genetics to want to continue to grow and expand them, in a sense they cling to their own human condition when in fact all conditions lead to suffering in the end. In fact, there is nothing to fear in this thing we call death as it is the transfer from one state of being to another, this isn't even diving into the idea of reincarnation which has been scientifically studied and even supported by evidence and which should also be common sense to most people as if you can be born once why cant you be born again?
I hate to point to a philosophy but this really points to Buddhism about how far in great lengths that people will go and how much suffering they will undertake (researching and work, not being happy with their present state) to try to extend their human conditioning vs being happy, content, and peaceful with the present instead of being afraid of "death" and being a slave to your own genetics and clinging to them vs developing a great understanding of what reality really is which are just our human senses.

This technology is not all about transferring our 'soul'. Whether you like it or not, there will always be people with the $$ and power when the time comes that this tech is viable to make use of it. Imagine what could be accomplished if some of the most intelligent physicists and philosophers of our history were given the chance at a longer lifetime, and learning capability. Who wouldn't want to be given the chance to be immortal? To learn as easily as updating virus definitions on your PC. A simple software update.

The fact is, none of us know whether this is possible or not, as at this current time, we do NOT understand the brian, whatsoever. Once the mind is completely mapped and the tech is available to simulate said mind, the possibilities are endless.

If 100 people were given the oppurtunity to take a blue pill and live for thousands of years, or take a red pill and fade away, most would choose immortality. It is the nature of the animal kingdom to survive. To not make use of ones intelligence and tools is foolish.

You can also look at it as the fact that you are not transferring your soul or the actual physical consciousness over, you are simply duplicating it. You are creating a replica of yourself. A duplicate with your same memories and consciousness. That duplicate would then live on forever and would serve as a testament to your long forgotten human shell. I feel there is much more to be learned about this tech before any moral conclusions can be made about it.
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post #243 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by m3t4lh34d View Post

This technology is not all about transferring our 'soul'. Whether you like it or not, there will always be people with the $$ and power when the time comes that this tech is viable to make use of it. Imagine what could be accomplished if some of the most intelligent physicists and philosophers of our history were given the chance at a longer lifetime, and learning capability. Who wouldn't want to be given the chance to be immortal? To learn as easily as updating virus definitions on your PC. A simple software update.
The fact is, none of us know whether this is possible or not, as at this current time, we do NOT understand the brian, whatsoever. Once the mind is completely mapped and the tech is available to simulate said mind, the possibilities are endless.
If 100 people were given the oppurtunity to take a blue pill and live for thousands of years, or take a red pill and fade away, most would choose immortality. It is the nature of the animal kingdom to survive. To not make use of ones intelligence and tools is foolish.
You can also look at it as the fact that you are not transferring your soul or the actual physical consciousness over, you are simply duplicating it. You are creating a replica of yourself. A duplicate with your same memories and consciousness. That duplicate would then live on forever and would serve as a testament to your long forgotten human shell. I feel there is much more to be learned about this tech before any moral conclusions can be made about it.

The problem with that is that even if your duplicate would live forever "you" being your conscious and soul would still die thus making this technology pointless. This also means that a duplicate of yourself even if it had the same mind and body would still be a different person due to there being a different consciousness or no conscious at all in the duplicated body. Also, it's in my opinion that all of the advances in science, technology, philosophy, etc are pointless as in the end everything will cease to exist in their current condition and move onto another condition after they "die".

All of the medical and other technology in the end does not matter as even that stuff is subject to impermanence and in the end nothing is worth clinging to, this technology is just trying to adhere to the condition of the human survivalist mind instead of trying to swim against the wave and understand reality and this condition that we all live in for what it is. So yes, I would choose the red pill as I know that true peace comes from being free from the human mind that tends to cling to emotions and is conditioned to be a slave to its own genes and society when it is born.
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post #244 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwarren View Post

The problem with that is that even if your duplicate would live forever "you" being your conscious and soul would still die thus making this technology pointless. This also means that a duplicate of yourself even if it had the same mind and body would still be a different person due to there being a different consciousness or no conscious at all in the duplicated body. Also, it's in my opinion that all of the advances in science, technology, philosophy, etc are pointless as in the end everything will cease to exist in their current condition and move onto another condition after they "die".
All of the medical and other technology in the end does not matter as even that stuff is subject to impermanence and in the end nothing is worth clinging to, this technology is just trying to adhere to the condition of the human survivalist mind instead of trying to swim against the wave and understand reality and this condition that we all live in for what it is. So yes, I would choose the red pill as I know that true peace comes from being free from the human mind that tends to cling to emotions and is conditioned to be a slave to its own genes and society when it is born.

That the problem i see too. Same idea with Cloning. How would you know if its the real person. I think the only way to really know is if you can transfer your Soul to a different body and at the same time you see ur real empty body next to you. Then being able to go back to you real body and getting the experience of soul transfer concept. Only then you would know for sure you are the Original.
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post #245 of 267
Why did that whole video seem like a bad viral marketing campaign for a movie?
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post #246 of 267
based on my own life experiences, i wouldn't want to live forever.
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post #247 of 267
The two most dangerous things I think the human race could create are time-travel and the ability to make humans immortal.
post #248 of 267
and to think, a few years ago I started telling my friends the next step in human evolution was to become transcendent beings... Heck, it all sounds great now, but let's face it, none of it matters. We're bound to screw up at some point. As many of you have pointed out there are errors here. It is against our nature live at peace, call it a utopia, whatever. and anyways, living forever really sounds like hell, we're not mean to. People forget that we are a part of nature, and if we want to break away from nature and simply exist, we must replace nature itself, something which, even by 2045, is probably not going to happen. We will exile ourselves from our very essence! I will stop ranting now
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post #249 of 267
I think the guys that are saying they want to die and those questioning whether the clone/copy would be the same person are missing the point of the potential for such technology.

Start asking "how will this benefit society?" instead of "how will this benefit me?". Think from a utilitarian perspective and this sort of technology all of sudden begins to make a little sense.

1. Whether that copy/clone is still you is irrelevant to the rest of society.
So who cares if it's not you? As far as the rest of society can tell, that copy/clone is still you. It's got your exact physical characteristics, memories, intelligence, personality and so forth.

2. Some lives are worth more than others.
As harsh as it sounds, this sort of technology would be a waste to be used on the average Joe or the... below average. Last thing society needs is an immortal Justin Bieber, Snookie or Paris Hilton. The greatest benefit society would see from this sort of technology would be using it to preserve the greatest minds of our society. (i.e. Stephen Hawking, Briane Green, Michio Kaku, all the guys employed at NASA, etc.).
post #250 of 267
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xK1LLSW1TCHx127 View Post

It is against our nature live at peace, call it a utopia, whatever. and anyways, living forever really sounds like hell, we're not mean to.

How can that be when humans are inherently good?
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