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[TH] - No Booting Straight to Desktop in Windows 8 - Page 27  

post #261 of 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by CryWin View Post

Remember when the Overclock.net layout completely changed? Everyone was FORCED to use the new layout, and many people did not like it at first.
Enough time has passed that nobody really complains now.

Actually, no I don't. But then again, I just started posting here only a couple months ago, and unless I post on a board on a daily basis, if I just "lure it", I rarely remember all the various changes made to it, much less any discussions about it.
post #262 of 527
Lordikon just posted screenshots of multitasking in the metro interface. I actually really like the one where all the metro apps are available in the sidebar. I usually maximize my apps anyway and this way I can easily swap full screen apps with a single click...
post #263 of 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luminouslight View Post

I never said change doesn't happen. It's just the Metro vs Windows 7 is very radical for a single jump. I am sure very few people decided to dump their horse carriages when the first cars were released. Maybe Metro will catch on quickly as users can see the potential improvement over the learning curve, but I don't feel that it forcing onto users is the correct way to go.
Being a Linux user myself, I can't help but notice the staunch resistance to UI's like Unity for Ubuntu. I have a feeling the result will be similar to the Metro interface.

I meant with the "if it aint broke don't fix it" logic. Horses got people to where they wanted to go quicker than walking and candles provided enough light to see where you were going in the dark.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Actually, no I don't. But then again, I just started posting here only a couple months ago, and unless I post on a board on a daily basis, if I just "lure it", I rarely remember all the various changes made to it, much less any discussions about it.

It changed Nov 2011 IIRC tongue.gif Well that was the last change, if you use waybackmachine.com you can see it has had a few dramatic sudden changes over the years.
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post #264 of 527
This is turning into a whole 'nother XP (Win 7) vs Vista (Win 8) debacle. Win 7 will be the "old" OS that lives on for many many years and Win 8 will be that crappy "new" OS that has lackluster usage and falls by the wayside. No need for Win 8.
    
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post #265 of 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post

This is turning into a whole 'nother XP (Win 7) vs Vista (Win 8) debacle. Win 7 will be the "old" OS that lives on for many many years and Win 8 will be that crappy "new" OS that has lackluster usage and falls by the wayside. No need for Win 8.
Nope this is more akin to DOS vs Win 3.11. Well I didn't live at the time I'm just guessing.
post #266 of 527
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompsonn View Post

Well its not technically part of an API no, if we are going to strictly take concepts from Win32. The Window Manager provides the controls for this automatically. But sure, programs can close themselves down but this is not a UI concept.
Anyway your second paragraph is where the confusion stems from as I thought you were referring more towards that smile.gif

They couldn't create "better" APIs for the desktop/Win32 because well.. I could see it breaking many many programs, so compatibility was a constraint. Not too sure what you mean by "better" though.
And in some ways, they have. The CLR and .NET framework is one example with a generational GC that helps free the burden of the programmer from memory management (although not completely, but more-so than a native language, however advanced usages requiring p/invoke calls into Win32 APIs still require MM in .NET, too).

Also we need to realize the distinction between the API and the run time itself. The API provides services to invoke the run time (which as they stand now are really just a bunch of wrappers over Win32). A "better" API would not solve leaks due to poor programming (which is almost always the cause). The run time as the governor of the apps can step in which is what it does with application lifetime management, but of course there is only so much it can do.

Cannot guarantee 100% no leaks, of course not. Software will never be bug-free, but it appears to do a pretty good job so far.

Besides, if programmed properly a program will not have memory leaks. Also often the end user cannot tell what a memory leak is (unless it is obvious and hundreds of MBs of memory is being used for no apparent reason). Gadgets != Windows Runtime. Not sure what's up with that, but sure - jury is definitely out on its security.


Thanks for the informative post! Rep+
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

If there's one thing I've learned over the last 25 years or so, it's that change is inevitable, and that many people are resistant to it. It's one of the most frustrating things when dealing with my grandparents, they are stuck in their ways, unwilling to embrace any change, and it affects them for the worse. If you can learn to accept change, and adapt to the changes, you'll likely find that life will go more smoothly. I'm not advocating that all change is good, and that everyone should just be a pawn and accept whatever they are given, but it's a useful skill to identify which changes are here to stay and may be important, and those are the changes you might want adapt to, rather than ignore.

Why do you think it is that children adapt and learn so fast? They're malleable, they accept change easily. If you can accept change and unfamiliar things, you'll learn faster.

First part of your post = reasonable logic, except we all know where you're heading - Windows 8 is GOOD change. That is the main problem with the logic. That is your assessment and there are many valid concerns over why Windows 8 is NOT good change.

And I did learn fast how to use Windows 8. And in those cases where I didn't know at first how to accomplish something, nothing a little google search wouldn't solve. The problem is, I still don't like it. I understand the concept, I described it in my Developer Preview review (link in my sig), so I don't think I am particularly averse to change since I went right away and built a test system for it, and then still gave it a second try with the Consumer Preview, and I think it's badly implemented - and Microsoft proves me right every time they make many changes to the UI, from Developer Preview, to Consumer Preview, to Release Preview and even to RTM. Even the nomenclature they used "Preview, Preview, Preview" in all three denotes that they are not confident enough to at least call the last version prior to RTM Released Candidate, because they apparently still had changes to the UI to make.

You should have the skills to know how to identify that Windows 8 is pretty much a work in progress and that it will only be consolidated in Windows 9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Surely that's just a bug though. I can't imagine that MS would intentionally destroy multitasking in the metro interface...

No, it's by design. Unless they change the design, but I doubt they will do that in Windows 8, probably only in Windows 9.
 
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post #267 of 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

Nope this is more akin to DOS vs Win 3.11. Well I didn't live at the time I'm just guessing.

Nah he means it's going to be like people are going to use Windows 7 (XP) for the next decade and the people who upgrade to 8 (Vista) are going to go back to 7 pretty quickly. Well some people are.
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post #268 of 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

If there's one thing I've learned over the last 25 years or so, it's that change is inevitable, and that many people are resistant to it. It's one of the most frustrating things when dealing with my grandparents, they are stuck in their ways, unwilling to embrace any change, and it affects them for the worse. If you can learn to accept change, and adapt to the changes, you'll likely find that life will go more smoothly. I'm not advocating that all change is good, and that everyone should just be a pawn and accept whatever they are given, but it's a useful skill to identify which changes are here to stay and may be important, and those are the changes you might want adapt to, rather than ignore.

Why do you think it is that children adapt and learn so fast? They're malleable, they accept change easily. If you can accept change and unfamiliar things, you'll learn faster.

First part of your post = reasonable logic, except we all know where you're heading - Windows 8 is GOOD change. That is the main problem with the logic. That is your assessment and there are many valid concerns over why Windows 8 is NOT good change.

And I did learn fast how to use Windows 8. And in those cases where I didn't know at first how to accomplish something, nothing a little google search wouldn't solve. The problem is, I still don't like it. I understand the concept, I described it in my Developer Preview review (link in my sig), so I don't think I am particularly averse to change since I went right away and built a test system for it, and then still gave it a second try with the Consumer Preview, and I think it's badly implemented - and Microsoft proves me right every time they make many changes to the UI, from Developer Preview, to Consumer Preview, to Release Preview and even to RTM. Even the nomenclature they used "Preview, Preview, Preview" in all three denotes that they are not confident enough to at least call the last version prior to RTM Released Candidate, because they apparently still had changes to the UI to make.

You should have the skills to know how to identify that Windows 8 is pretty much a work in progress and that it will only be consolidated in Windows 9.

I didn't say you had to like it, I just said it's best to adapt to it.

Change will happen, whether you like it or not. There are people that love newspapers, yet those will still go away eventually replaced by digital media, or people that love CDs, or people that loved DOS, etc.

You cannot use Windows 7 forever, at some point change affect you whether you want it to or not. In my job, I must embrace change quickly. I started out making games for PC and Mac, and in the 4 years I spent on just one game the gaming industry went from having no iPhone/Android to having iOS sales alone outstrip Microsoft's total profits. Did I think I'd be where I am now a few years ago, no, but I have to embrace it and adapt anyway, or I'll become the old people that I dread that have outdated skills and knowledge.
Edited by lordikon - 8/8/12 at 8:49am
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post #269 of 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Thanks for the informative post! Rep+
First part of your post = reasonable logic, except we all know where you're heading - Windows 8 is GOOD change. That is the main problem with the logic. That is your assessment and there are many valid concerns over why Windows 8 is NOT good change.
And I did learn fast how to use Windows 8. And in those cases where I didn't know at first how to accomplish something, nothing a little google search wouldn't solve. The problem is, I still don't like it. I understand the concept, I described it in my Developer Preview review (link in my sig), so I don't think I am particularly averse to change since I went right away and built a test system for it, and then still gave it a second try with the Consumer Preview, and I think it's badly implemented - and Microsoft proves me right every time they make many changes to the UI, from Developer Preview, to Consumer Preview, to Release Preview and even to RTM. Even the nomenclature they used "Preview, Preview, Preview" in all three denotes that they are not confident enough to at least call the last version prior to RTM Released Candidate, because they apparently still had changes to the UI to make.
You should have the skills to know how to identify that Windows 8 is pretty much a work in progress and that it will only be consolidated in Windows 9.
No, it's by design. Unless they change the design, but I doubt they will do that in Windows 8, probably only in Windows 9.

Go back to the last page. Lordikon posted a screenie of multiple apps opened in the metro interface. Seems like a cool idea to have a small metro representation on the left side that you can click into any app while maintaining each app at full screen on the right...

[/quote]
post #270 of 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

Nah he means it's going to be like people are going to use Windows 7 (XP) for the next decade and the people who upgrade to 8 (Vista) are going to go back to 7 pretty quickly. Well some people are.

While all the reasonable people will just simply get used to new UI with it's ups/down (yes, it has them both) and enjoy performance boost W8 it brings.

I mean who cares how it looks as long as it performs good and it sure does. By the same logic some people here go "it takes 1 more mouse lick to do!!!" there shouldn't be any new part in newer Windows versions at all, as it can't be used exactly the same way to the point as the old thing.

To me it seems like a hot topic now, with all the popular hating. My guess is that in 6 month hate will blow over and most today's haters will be using W8 themselves.
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