Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [CNET] Payback: Samsung says Apple destroyed evidence
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[CNET] Payback: Samsung says Apple destroyed evidence

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Apple didn't preserve e-mail evidence any better than us so they deserve to be penalized in the same way we were, Samsung lawyers told a federal court today.
In Apple v. Samsung (see CNET's full coverage here), the patent court case that's commanding the attention of the gadget world, Samsung wrote to U.S. District Judge Lucy Koh and pointed out how few were the e-mails that key Apple managers, including co-founder Steve Jobs, turned over for discovery in the case. One interesting side issue is the differences between Apple's and Samsung's e-mail retention policy (we'll get to that in a second).

In response to Samsung's accusations about destroying evidence, Apple trumpeted the fact that unlike Samsung, it does not implement any automatic e-mail deletion systems. Employees are allowed to preserve e-mails any way they wish. "The question for the Court is not whether records were destroyed pursuant to an 'automatic e-mail deletion system,'" Samsung wrote. "It is whether they were destroyed when there was an obligation to preserve them, period."

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57488289-37/payback-samsung-says-apple-destroyed-evidence/

lachen.gif

You reap what you sow.
Edited by Stealth Pyros - 8/7/12 at 1:44pm
Gaming Rig
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 2500k, 4.6GHz, 1.304v ASRock P67 Extreme4 Gen3 2x Sapphire HD7970 OC with Boost, 1150 MHz/1550... 2x4GB DDR3 1600 Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 840 Pro Samsung 750GB HD753LJ Samsung F3 ASUS 24X DVD Combo Drive 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Noctua DH14 Windows 8 Professional x64 Crossover 27Q 27" IPS LED, 2560x1440 Logitech G11 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair TX750 Cooler Master HAF932 Logitech G500 Custom 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty 2x Dayton B652 Bookshelf Dayton DTA-100A Amplifier Dayton 12" SUB-1200 Subwoofer 
  hide details  
Reply
Gaming Rig
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 2500k, 4.6GHz, 1.304v ASRock P67 Extreme4 Gen3 2x Sapphire HD7970 OC with Boost, 1150 MHz/1550... 2x4GB DDR3 1600 Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 840 Pro Samsung 750GB HD753LJ Samsung F3 ASUS 24X DVD Combo Drive 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Noctua DH14 Windows 8 Professional x64 Crossover 27Q 27" IPS LED, 2560x1440 Logitech G11 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair TX750 Cooler Master HAF932 Logitech G500 Custom 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty 2x Dayton B652 Bookshelf Dayton DTA-100A Amplifier Dayton 12" SUB-1200 Subwoofer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #2 of 22
Quote:
"Why was August 2010 the right date triggering Samsung's obligation to preserve documents while the right date for Apple was not until April 2011?" Samsung asks in its filing.

I like this bit the most. Why is there such a discrepancy? Both companies should have the same start date
Neutrino
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 6700K Asus Z170I PRO GAMING Gigabyte GTX 1070 Mini ITX Corsair 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
Crucial MX300 750GB Scythe Big Shuriken 2 rev. B Cryorig XT140 fan Windows 10 Pro 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Topre Realforce 87u 55g Corsair SF450 Lazer3D LZ7 Logitech G303 
Mouse PadAudio
Steelseries 4HD Audio Technica ATH-M50 
  hide details  
Reply
Neutrino
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 6700K Asus Z170I PRO GAMING Gigabyte GTX 1070 Mini ITX Corsair 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
Crucial MX300 750GB Scythe Big Shuriken 2 rev. B Cryorig XT140 fan Windows 10 Pro 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Topre Realforce 87u 55g Corsair SF450 Lazer3D LZ7 Logitech G303 
Mouse PadAudio
Steelseries 4HD Audio Technica ATH-M50 
  hide details  
Reply
post #3 of 22
Koh will just say it is to late for Samsung while trying out the new iGavel that Apple was generous enough to give her free of charge.
post #4 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vowels View Post

Quote:
"Why was August 2010 the right date triggering Samsung's obligation to preserve documents while the right date for Apple was not until April 2011?" Samsung asks in its filing.

I like this bit the most. Why is there such a discrepancy? Both companies should have the same start date

Because the judge obviously has either something against Samsung, or favors Apple. wink.gif I really wish Samsung's lawyers would gather up all of these small details and use them to disqualify the judge for bias.
Gaming Rig
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 2500k, 4.6GHz, 1.304v ASRock P67 Extreme4 Gen3 2x Sapphire HD7970 OC with Boost, 1150 MHz/1550... 2x4GB DDR3 1600 Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 840 Pro Samsung 750GB HD753LJ Samsung F3 ASUS 24X DVD Combo Drive 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Noctua DH14 Windows 8 Professional x64 Crossover 27Q 27" IPS LED, 2560x1440 Logitech G11 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair TX750 Cooler Master HAF932 Logitech G500 Custom 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty 2x Dayton B652 Bookshelf Dayton DTA-100A Amplifier Dayton 12" SUB-1200 Subwoofer 
  hide details  
Reply
Gaming Rig
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 2500k, 4.6GHz, 1.304v ASRock P67 Extreme4 Gen3 2x Sapphire HD7970 OC with Boost, 1150 MHz/1550... 2x4GB DDR3 1600 Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 840 Pro Samsung 750GB HD753LJ Samsung F3 ASUS 24X DVD Combo Drive 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Noctua DH14 Windows 8 Professional x64 Crossover 27Q 27" IPS LED, 2560x1440 Logitech G11 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair TX750 Cooler Master HAF932 Logitech G500 Custom 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty 2x Dayton B652 Bookshelf Dayton DTA-100A Amplifier Dayton 12" SUB-1200 Subwoofer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5 of 22
Like Koh will allow that, Im sure she will find away out of getting out of punishing Apple and find away too get it back round too punish Samsung lol
The White Box
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X6 BE 1090T Asus CrossHair IV iChill 770GTX 4GB Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB)  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB (x1) Seagate 4TB(x1) Samsung SH-S223C/BEBE Corsair H80 Push-Pull Windows 7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell SP2309w Cheap Super Flower 750w Corsair Air 540 White 
MouseMouse Pad
Razor Naga 2012 Edition None 
  hide details  
Reply
The White Box
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom II X6 BE 1090T Asus CrossHair IV iChill 770GTX 4GB Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB)  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB (x1) Seagate 4TB(x1) Samsung SH-S223C/BEBE Corsair H80 Push-Pull Windows 7 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell SP2309w Cheap Super Flower 750w Corsair Air 540 White 
MouseMouse Pad
Razor Naga 2012 Edition None 
  hide details  
Reply
post #6 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

Because the judge obviously has either something against Samsung, or favors Apple. wink.gif I really wish Samsung's lawyers would gather up all of these small details and use them to disqualify the judge for bias.

They have absolutely no ability to make the judge recuse herself. Being pissed at shady lawyering is a self-inflicted wound. Believe me, I've been on the bad end of that equation.

With that said, Samsung does have a point. All companies destroy evidence, which is why they always accuse each other of doing it. You don't get that big without learning to dodge a few landmines...
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6700k ASUS z170-e EVGA 1080 SC ACX 3.0 G.Skill 32 GB  
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Samsung 950 m2.a SSD  Windows 10 Acer Predator xb271hu Corsair 850ax 
Case
Phanteks Eclipse P400w 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6700k ASUS z170-e EVGA 1080 SC ACX 3.0 G.Skill 32 GB  
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Samsung 950 m2.a SSD  Windows 10 Acer Predator xb271hu Corsair 850ax 
Case
Phanteks Eclipse P400w 
  hide details  
Reply
post #7 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axon14 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

Because the judge obviously has either something against Samsung, or favors Apple. wink.gif I really wish Samsung's lawyers would gather up all of these small details and use them to disqualify the judge for bias.

They have absolutely no ability to make the judge recuse herself. Being pissed at shady lawyering is a self-inflicted wound. Believe me, I've been on the bad end of that equation.

With that said, Samsung does have a point. All companies destroy evidence, which is why they always accuse each other of doing it. You don't get that big without learning to dodge a few landmines...

Disqualification isn't the same as recusal; Samsung could appeal that the judge is biased and she could be disqualified by the district/whoever is appointed to handle that. Samsung would at first request the judge to dismiss herself, and if she denies, they may then file for a motion with the courts. I've done it even for something as small as traffic tickets, it's not difficult at all to get through. I've had my ticket cases delayed for a new judge multiple times just because they were black and I claimed that I simply felt that I would be discriminated before we even began debating the ticket. Now, the only problem is you do have to file for the motion very early on. Once the judge has held multiple hearings for the same case, you have little hope to get them dismissed =/ Inb4 "Lol Stealth the typical OCN lawyer." I've had and fought plenty of traffic tickets on my own with my big boy pants on thumb.gif.
Edited by Stealth Pyros - 8/7/12 at 2:17pm
Gaming Rig
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 2500k, 4.6GHz, 1.304v ASRock P67 Extreme4 Gen3 2x Sapphire HD7970 OC with Boost, 1150 MHz/1550... 2x4GB DDR3 1600 Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 840 Pro Samsung 750GB HD753LJ Samsung F3 ASUS 24X DVD Combo Drive 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Noctua DH14 Windows 8 Professional x64 Crossover 27Q 27" IPS LED, 2560x1440 Logitech G11 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair TX750 Cooler Master HAF932 Logitech G500 Custom 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty 2x Dayton B652 Bookshelf Dayton DTA-100A Amplifier Dayton 12" SUB-1200 Subwoofer 
  hide details  
Reply
Gaming Rig
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 2500k, 4.6GHz, 1.304v ASRock P67 Extreme4 Gen3 2x Sapphire HD7970 OC with Boost, 1150 MHz/1550... 2x4GB DDR3 1600 Corsair Vengeance 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 840 Pro Samsung 750GB HD753LJ Samsung F3 ASUS 24X DVD Combo Drive 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Noctua DH14 Windows 8 Professional x64 Crossover 27Q 27" IPS LED, 2560x1440 Logitech G11 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair TX750 Cooler Master HAF932 Logitech G500 Custom 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty 2x Dayton B652 Bookshelf Dayton DTA-100A Amplifier Dayton 12" SUB-1200 Subwoofer 
  hide details  
Reply
post #8 of 22
they have a point.
Quote:
"Apple produced zero Steve Jobs e-mails from the key August 2010 to April 2011 period (and 51 e-mails overall from Jobs)," Samsung said in the documents. "The company received 9 e-mails from Mr. [Jonathan] Ive (45 overall) from that period. These are absolutely critical witnesses -- it is inconceivable that Mr. Jobs, CEO of Apple during a portion of the relevant time period and inventor of the '949, '678, D'087, D'677, D'270, D'889, D'757 and D'678 patents, actually had so few e-mails on issues in this case and none between August 2010 and April 2011."
2010rig
(14 items)
 
Galaxy S3
(8 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X5660 @ 4.5  ASUS P6X58D-E 980TI? 12GB OCZ Platinum - 7-7-7-21 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
1 80GB SSD x25m - 3TB F3 + F4 NH-D14 Windows 7 Ultimate LG 47LH55 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Natural Wireless Keyboard Corsair 750HX CM 690 II Advanced MX 518 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Snapdragon S4 Dual core 1500mhz Adreno 225 Samsung 2GB 16GB Onboard Flash 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Android 4.4.2 - CM11 4.8" AMOLED 1280x720 2100 mAh battery Otterbox Defender 
  hide details  
Reply
2010rig
(14 items)
 
Galaxy S3
(8 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X5660 @ 4.5  ASUS P6X58D-E 980TI? 12GB OCZ Platinum - 7-7-7-21 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
1 80GB SSD x25m - 3TB F3 + F4 NH-D14 Windows 7 Ultimate LG 47LH55 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Natural Wireless Keyboard Corsair 750HX CM 690 II Advanced MX 518 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Snapdragon S4 Dual core 1500mhz Adreno 225 Samsung 2GB 16GB Onboard Flash 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Android 4.4.2 - CM11 4.8" AMOLED 1280x720 2100 mAh battery Otterbox Defender 
  hide details  
Reply
post #9 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

Disqualification isn't the same as recusal; Samsung could appeal that the judge is biased and she could be disqualified by the district/whoever is appointed to handle that. Samsung would at first request the judge to dismiss herself, and if she denies, they may then file for a motion with the courts. I've done it even for something as small as traffic tickets, it's not difficult at all to get through. I've had my ticket cases delayed for a new judge multiple times just because they were black and I claimed that I simply felt that I would be discriminated before we even began debating the ticket. Now, the only problem is you do have to file for the motion very early on. Once the judge has held multiple hearings for the same case, you have little hope to get them dismissed =/ Inb4 "Lol Stealth the typical OCN lawyer." I've had and fought plenty of traffic tickets on my own with my big boy pants on thumb.gif.

Well, I am an attorney, and I've never gotten a District Judge dismissed for bias. Never. I've only had them recuse themselves for conflict of interest.

Again, is she actually biased, or is she just irritated at what she perceives is bad lawyering? I'm not flaming, I'm just saying. I doubt she's in Apple's pocket, and I think it's more likely she's exasperated at Samsung's attorneys. Like I said, I've been in the naughty box myself, and it's not a good spot to be in.

I have no doubt you've gotten judges removed, but traffic court is a different animal. Anyway, you're correct about the timing of the motion, it must be made early on.
Edited by Axon14 - 8/7/12 at 5:24pm
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6700k ASUS z170-e EVGA 1080 SC ACX 3.0 G.Skill 32 GB  
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Samsung 950 m2.a SSD  Windows 10 Acer Predator xb271hu Corsair 850ax 
Case
Phanteks Eclipse P400w 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6700k ASUS z170-e EVGA 1080 SC ACX 3.0 G.Skill 32 GB  
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Samsung 950 m2.a SSD  Windows 10 Acer Predator xb271hu Corsair 850ax 
Case
Phanteks Eclipse P400w 
  hide details  
Reply
post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axon14 View Post

Well, I am an attorney, and I've never gotten a District Judge dismissed for bias. Never. I've only had them recuse themselves for conflict of interest.
Again, is she actually biased, or is she just irritated at what she perceives is bad lawyering? I'm not flaming, I'm just saying. I doubt she's in Apple's pocket, and I think it's more likely she's exasperated at Samsung's attorneys. Like I said, I've been in the naughty box myself, and it's not a good spot to be in.
I have no doubt you've gotten judges removed, but traffic court is a different animal. Anyway, you're correct about the timing of the motion, it must be made early on.

Not to be a dick or ass to you, but because this is the internet and such statements can carry legal heft, mind supplying your BAR ID and states you're licensed to practice law in? PM it to me if you wish to keep it private, or better yet an active mod who can chime in on your credibility. Again, just looking out for people's best interests here. smile.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Technology and Science News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [CNET] Payback: Samsung says Apple destroyed evidence