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[NeoGaf/WGTC] Accept Steam Agreement Or Disable Your Account - Page 28

post #271 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

As far as the class action waiver goes, the supreme court has looked it over, and deemed it to be legal.
As for ownership being clear, how is this:
You don't own the games. You have never owned the games. You will never own the games.
All you buy is the right to play them under certain conditions, break those conditions and your right to play is forfeit.
Think of it like renting a flat. You pay money to live there based on certain conditions. You break the rules (e.g. trash the place) and you get evicted.

That's the problem. It shouldn't be that way. I buy a car, not a license to use the car. I buy a book, not a license to read the book. I don't have to worry about Simon and Shuster barging into my house and confiscating my copies of Harry Potter. Furthermore I can sell those books if I want which proves that I OWN them. Games and software should be ABSOLUTELY NO different....
post #272 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

That's the problem. It shouldn't be that way. I buy a car, not a license to use the car. I buy a book, not a license to read the book. I don't have to worry about Simon and Shuster barging into my house and confiscating my copies of Harry Potter. Furthermore I can sell those books if I want which proves that I OWN them. Games and software should be ABSOLUTELY NO different....

I don't like it either, but that is the way it is.

The main problem with changing it is that all the things you mentioned are physical objects, sftware isn't. You can't really copy a car or a book without a lot of work. You can copy software easily. That is the main difference.

Buying a copy of the software doesn't really make sense in that respect as it isn't really a physical object (a disk doesn't count, you are buying the software, not the disk it is on).

Maybe it should be changed to you buying a permanent license for the (offline) game, provided you don't use it for illegal purposes. That puts it more in line with buying physical objects - they are yours unless confiscated because you used them to break the law.
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post #273 of 465
You are not waiving your right to a class action lawsuit. You are waiving your right to use steam and sue them in a class action. They are doing this because of all the frivolous class actions out there and even the real ones where people just join to try and get a check. Valve doesn't think its fair that if you feel they did something wrong to sue them while still using their service. By putting this clause in their TOS if you join a class action you will most likely need to put your steam user info. Valve can then cross reference this with online data and say you agreed that you would not sue while using our service, leading to two outcomes your are removed from the class action or you give up your account in order to be part of it.

In addition you are paying for the right to use the software on their platform. So while i do agree it sucks but they have every right to close your account and you lose your games. The only grey area i truly see is a physical copy that is bought and forced to activate through steam, however it really provides no undue burden on you as games are nor necessary and not having that one game will not kill you.

I just don't understand why people think you cannot sue valve if you agree to this. You just can't sue them and use their product. I do personally think that if you sue them they should just disable your account for the duration of the lawsuit and see where it goes before completely closing it but that's just an opinion.
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post #274 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

I don't like it either, but that is the way it is.
The main problem with changing it is that all the things you mentioned are physical objects, sftware isn't. You can't really copy a car or a book without a lot of work. You can copy software easily. That is the main difference.
Buying a copy of the software doesn't really make sense in that respect as it isn't really a physical object (a disk doesn't count, you are buying the software, not the disk it is on).
Maybe it should be changed to you buying a permanent license for the (offline) game, provided you don't use it for illegal purposes. That puts it more in line with buying physical objects - they are yours unless confiscated because you used them to break the law.

The same argument was attempted by the RIAA and music industry when tapes came out in the 80's. As far as I recall the courts held that you had every right to copy intellectual property that you purchased so long as you didn't distribute it. The issues arose after the advent of the internet when mass distribution of copied media became a possibility.

I'm not saying its OK to distribute media illegally, I'm just saying that if I pay $60 for something nobody should be able to take it away solely at their discretion...
post #275 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

As far as the class action waiver goes, the supreme court has looked it over, and deemed it to be legal.

If you look into the ruling of that case, you will see where the political line stood on the matter. Look at which justices took which side. Perfect political party split. You will likely find that same political split among the people arguing each side in this thread. Another case of siding with the corporations. This ruling further enables the ones with the money to win even easier next time since you seemingly won't even be able to get them into court.
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post #276 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlindDeafMute View Post

Even if its steam, valve, ea or anybody, a a-hole move is still an a-hole move. Pretty crappy of them to do this. mad.gif
This is why you should always BUY THE HARD COPY of the game, and the hell with digital distribution. When you buy the hard copy, you truly, honestly, OWN THE GAME.

I agree wholeheartedly, I'm pro hard copy. The problem with a hard copy is if it activates under steam works, such as many new games i can think of such as Dead Island and even Skyrim. The only way around that is to bypass the protection through the other side of the fence...

You're damn if you do and you're damn if you don't.....
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post #277 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by b.walker36 View Post

You are not waiving your right to a class action lawsuit. You are waiving your right to use steam and sue them in a class action. They are doing this because of all the frivolous class actions out there and even the real ones where people just join to try and get a check. Valve doesn't think its fair that if you feel they did something wrong to sue them while still using their service. By putting this clause in their TOS if you join a class action you will most likely need to put your steam user info. Valve can then cross reference this with online data and say you agreed that you would not sue while using our service, leading to two outcomes your are removed from the class action or you give up your account in order to be part of it.
In addition you are paying for the right to use the software on their platform. So while i do agree it sucks but they have every right to close your account and you lose your games. The only grey area i truly see is a physical copy that is bought and forced to activate through steam, however it really provides no undue burden on you as games are nor necessary and not having that one game will not kill you.
I just don't understand why people think you cannot sue valve if you agree to this. You just can't sue them and use their product. I do personally think that if you sue them they should just disable your account for the duration of the lawsuit and see where it goes before completely closing it but that's just an opinion.

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post #278 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

The same argument was attempted by the RIAA and music industry when tapes came out in the 80's. As far as I recall the courts held that you had every right to copy intellectual property that you purchased so long as you didn't distribute it. The issues arose after the advent of the internet when mass distribution of copied media became a possibility.
I'm not saying its OK to distribute media illegally, I'm just saying that if I pay $60 for something nobody should be able to take it away solely at their discretion...

There is a great risk of this right being taken away from us in Canada. Circumventing a digital lock for any reason will be illegal if the latest bills come to pass. Format shifting media you bought... also illegal. Backing up your DVD... Illegal! Backing up your CD?... not illegal because there are no locks on CD's...YET (but format shifting it to a hard drive or mp3 player will be illegal). The next wave of digital audio will most certainly be digitally locked if this bill passes. Not sure on the status of these issues in other countries.

This is all scary stuff that everybody should be concerned about... It's all a slippery slope from here.

Wise words from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came%E2%80%A6
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post #279 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

The same argument was attempted by the RIAA and music industry when tapes came out in the 80's. As far as I recall the courts held that you had every right to copy intellectual property that you purchased so long as you didn't distribute it. The issues arose after the advent of the internet when mass distribution of copied media became a possibility.

I think I remember that too - you were allowed to make one copy of any media you owned for archiving purposes (after all, tapes stretch and CDs get scratched). That would make sense to me.

My ideal scenario would be one where you can buy a license for media which only allows one simultaneous use. That would mean that you can buy your MP3 / FLAC, copy it to CD, MP3 player, phone, computer, tablet and whatever other device you want and listen to / play it wherever.

Stipulating that there is only one simultaneous use would mean that you can't copy and sell it.

Incidentally a lot of DD service already allow you to do this. I can install my Steam games on multiple computers and play them wherever, so long as I use my login which can only be used on one computer at a time. Makes sense to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

I'm just saying that if I pay $60 for something nobody should be able to take it away solely at their discretion...

And I would agree with you. That would be the ideal situation for the offline game.

The online game is a little different, I am OK with MP bans for cheating (provided there is an open and transparent appeal process).
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post #280 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksknight View Post

Yes i am, because if they add something i disagree with i would keep on playing.
First off almost nobody reads that crap (including me) so it will never bother me anyway. All the games i get on steam are deeply discounted and most of them i dont play anymore anyway.
So again yeah i would still agree and keep on playing.

I always skim through it...but yeah I doubt much of any one actually reads it. I remember a news thread a long while ago about some digital software outfit in the UK putting something in the TOS that if the person didn't check the opt out box the company would then own their soul.

Unless the ToS is changed to something that can actually have a negative effect on your actual day to day usage of a service...it is meaningless. The only stupid thing is that they had to waste man power and legal fees to get their ToS sent up.
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