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[NeoGaf/WGTC] Accept Steam Agreement Or Disable Your Account - Page 43

post #421 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by sub50hz View Post

If this is the argument, how many of you guys are writing/calling your favorite publishers and devs and asking them to not use Steam as the sole distribution method? Or is it just more fun to complain on a forum?
If you don't like it, nobody's holding a gun to your head -- let Valve walk away with your money when you close your account, you've showed them.

This.

And if steam wasn't doing it then the publisher would be aka Origin & EA.
post #422 of 465
Not to mention that we are talking about video games here. I agree that it's crap, and I agree that companies are getting more and more greedy and controlling with their terms and agreements... but that's the world we live in now. I have much less of a problem with the possibility that Steam could legally take away a few hundred dollars worth of entertainment software that I paid for on a whim than I do with the fact that I could have my house taken away for having weeds in my yard. Not that it's happened yet, but if you live in an aggressive HOA or POA here in the US... that's what many of those agreements basically say.

Until there is sweeping Tort reform, congressional reform, and in general common sense restored to the legal system of most western countries (not just the US)... then things like Apple telling me I can't legally make a 'hackinstosh' or Steam telling me I have to agree to let them do anything they want with some of my video games just won't be a big concern for me.

20 years ago I might have felt differently, but now I'd rather pick my fights and let the little stuff slide.
post #423 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Hi,
The European Commission is calling.
It's wants to talk about this "not owning your games" thing.

I can imagine it now.

EC: Valve, what is this about your customers owning licenses and not the actual games themselves?
Valve: Well, any game or computer program, including those sold on discs, technically give you the right to use the software, but you have no legal rights or claims to ownership of the intellectual property. That lies in the hands of the publisher and developer. Consumers are paying for the privilege of using our property, but they do not own it.
EC: Sort of like watching an interactive TV show?
Valve: Yep.
EC: And how long have you been doing this?
Valve: The industry has been doing this ever since software started being sold as a product and not given out freely.
EC: Oh, ok. So it would be stupid to attack you guys for doing this because we would have to attack the entire industry, right?
Valve: Pretty much.



In otherwords, the EC has no grounds to stand on because the entire industry has been doing this since before Steam or Valve ever existed. You just never noticed it. wink.gif
Edited by Mad Pistol - 8/11/12 at 11:30pm
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post #424 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiCiDAL View Post

Not to mention that we are talking about video games here.

No. We are talking about money.

Here's a hypothetical: You're sold something, say a baseball. That baseball is yours. Then the person who sold the baseball to you decides that you can only have the baseball if you don't throw it. You love throwing your baseball, so you disagree. So they take it from you, and don't even give you your money back from when you bought the baseball.

Does that seem right to you?
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post #425 of 465
Origin fans are loving this thread

enjoying your spyware ?? xD
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post #426 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by kremtok View Post

No. We are talking about money.
Here's a hypothetical: You're sold something, say a baseball. That baseball is yours. Then the person who sold the baseball to you decides that you can only have the baseball if you don't throw it. You love throwing your baseball, so you disagree. So they take it from you, and don't even give you your money back from when you bought the baseball.
Does that seem right to you?

that reasoning won't work as the steam fanboys here will just going to tell you that you don't own anything, so they have every right to take away everything if they want.
post #427 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by kremtok View Post

No. We are talking about money.
Here's a hypothetical: You're sold something, say a baseball. That baseball is yours. Then the person who sold the baseball to you decides that you can only have the baseball if you don't throw it. You love throwing your baseball, so you disagree. So they take it from you, and don't even give you your money back from when you bought the baseball.
Does that seem right to you?

There's a MASSIVE flaw in this analogy.

The games are NOT your property. You purchase a license to play the game, but the game itself is not yours. This is a function of Steam, the service.

In order for your analogy to line up with this, you have to basically say that you purchased the right to use the baseball, but that baseball still belongs to the person who is letting you use it. Therefore, since the baseball is owned by the other person, they can dictate what you can and cannot do with the baseball. If you violate the terms set by the owner, you forfeit your right to use the baseball.

Now, the good news in this situation is that as long as the owner allows you to use the baseball, the owner makes money, but if the owner suddenly stops letting the user use the baseball, the user tells all of their friends which possibly were thinking about purchasing the right to use the baseball. Therefore, you get a snowball effect where far less people purchase the right to use the baseball than what would have happened had the owner continued to let said person use the baseball. The owner then at the very least makes less money, and in some cases, eventually loses money.

It is in the owner's best interest to create fair terms by which the user has to abide by. If they don't create terms that are fair, the owner stands to be in a worse position as a seller than they would if they created something that is good for both parties.



Don't try and twist this story unless you know the true situation you're dealing with, because the scenario you described above does not line up with what is actually happening here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

that reasoning won't work as the steam fanboys here will just going to tell you that you don't own anything, so they have every right to take away everything if they want.

Using logic and reasoning is not against Overclock.net's ToS. You have every right to disagree. You should be cautious though because you've thrown around the term "fanboy" a lot in this thread. That, combined with the fact that you never really back up your statements with hard facts, really hurts your credibility.
Edited by Mad Pistol - 8/12/12 at 12:08am
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post #428 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

There's a MASSIVE flaw in this analogy.
The games are NOT your property. You purchase a license to play the game, but the game itself is not yours. This is a function of Steam, the service.
In order for your analogy to line up with this, you have to basically say that you purchased the right to use the baseball, but that baseball still belongs to the person who is letting you use it. Therefore, since the baseball is owned by the other person, they can dictate what you can and cannot do with the baseball. If you violate the terms set by the owner, you forfeit your right to use the baseball.
Now, the good news in this situation is that as long as the owner allows you to use the baseball, the owner makes money, but if the owner suddenly stops letting the user use the baseball, the user tells all of their friends which possibly were thinking about purchasing the right to use the baseball. Therefore, you get a snowball effect where far less people purchase the right to use the baseball than what would have happened had the owner continued to let said person use the baseball. The owner then at the very least makes less money, and in some cases, eventually loses money.
It is in the owner's best interest to create fair terms by which the user has to abide by. If they don't create terms that are fair, the owner stands to be in a worse position as a seller than they would if they created something that is good for both parties.
Don't try and twist this story unless you know the true situation you're dealing with, because the scenario you described above does not line up with what is actually happening here.

you own the license right? you have all the rights to play it. steam is not even the one who issues those licenses, remember when activating your game? which server does it communicates? so i don't think that they have any right to take away the license that is not even theirs in the first place. the steam service is nothing more than a marketplace, you purchase a license, download a game, then done. so if they wish to ban you from the market place, you should have the right to keep the licenses that you already have.
Edited by ghostrider85 - 8/12/12 at 12:31am
post #429 of 465
i have a question, i know this won't gonna happen but what if all physical stores like walmart, home depot, target, etc. starts requiring you to agree to their TOS, and their TOS says that "all non consumable, non perishable goods like furnitures electronics, etc. that are sold here does not own by consumers, they only have license to use those for unlimited time, this TOS is subject to change at any time."

you agreed to the terms and bought furnitures, then after a month, a store representative comes knocking on your door requiring you to sign their new TOS, and telling you that they will take away your furnitures if you don't sign it. so what if that happens? what if?

don't you think it's wrong for them to take away those furnitures even if they specifically said that you don't actually own the furnitures and you only have license to use those?


my point is that whatever you bought, you should not need to agree to any future TOS when then the transaction is already done, that only thing that you should need to do is to comply to the TOS that you agreed with when you purchased the game.
Edited by ghostrider85 - 8/12/12 at 12:36am
post #430 of 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

i have a question, i know this won't gonna happen but what if all physical stores like walmart, home depot, target, etc. starts requiring you to agree to their TOS, and their TOS says that "all non consumable, non perishable goods like furnitures electronics, etc. that are sold here does not own by consumers, they only have license to use those for unlimited time, this TOS is subject to change at any time."
you agreed to the terms and bought furnitures, then after a month, a store representative comes knocking on your door requiring you to sign their new TOS, and telling you that they will take away your furnitures if you don't sign it. so what if that happens? what if? don't you think it's wrong for them to take away those furnitures? even if you don't actually own the furnitures and you only have license to use those?
my point is that whatever you bought, you should not need to agree to any future TOS when then the transaction is already done, that only thing that you should need to do is to comply to the TOS that you agreed with when you purchased the game.

Irrelevant, you've purchased a physical product in that instance.
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