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post #161 of 229
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Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

That whole article is extremely misleading. MMOs and 'social' are an entire different animal. Your inital question to me was about your standard AAA game. (CoD, BF3, Batman AA, etc)
Read this thread then,and tell me what you think:
http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/29025415/which-platform-makes-the-most--for-games-consoles-v-pc-numberscharts-inside?page=0

It has Newzoo's analysis of world's 6 largest gaming markets,check the numbers at the end,remove "social" and MMO...
Keep in mind,it doesn't include Steam revenues...

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post #162 of 229
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Originally Posted by Teh Bottleneck View Post

Read this thread then,and tell me what you think:
http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/29025415/which-platform-makes-the-most--for-games-consoles-v-pc-numberscharts-inside?page=0
It has Newzoo's analysis of world's 6 largest gaming markets,check the numbers at the end,remove "social" and MMO...
Keep in mind,it doesn't include Steam revenues...

I already saw those charts and find them hard to believe. If PC gaming was this big why would big publishers ignore it like they do, they want to make as much money as possible that just doesn't make any sense. And with the general population level of knowledge on PC gaming I just don't see where all that revenue could come from.
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post #163 of 229
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Originally Posted by Telimektar View Post

I already saw those charts and find them hard to believe. If PC gaming was this big why would big publishers ignore it like they do, they want to make as much money as possible that just doesn't make any sense. And with the general population level of knowledge on PC gaming I just don't see where all that revenue could come from.
See,that's the pessimism I'm refering to!
Who's exactly ignoring PC gaming?

EA,the biggest publisher in the industry,starts up a DD service,and comes up with these results:
http://www.examiner.com/article/ea-financial-results-shows-pc-outperforming-ps3-while-digital-sales-rise

Activision,another large publisher,also heavily invests into PC,with their Blizzard division,which reports a huge success with Diablo 3...

Only large publisher whose record with PC gaming is less than stellar is Ubisoft,due to their AO-DRM schemes,but they're dropping it after bad sales,and public backlashes(FC3 and AC3 won't have it,for example)...

Bethesda also is working on an Elder Scrolls MMO,most likely encouraged by Skyrim's success on the PC(although I consider that MMO a very bad move,personally)..


We get lots of exclusives and ambitious projects(did you hear about Epic's Fortnite,with UE4),and we get nearly all relevant mutlitplats released this gen,many even came with PC exclusive features like DX11,mod tools,etc.And let's not forget typical graphics and performance improvements over console versions,present in every multiplat game...

Finally,don't forget the indie market,which is huge on the PC,due to the open nature of the platform...
Edited by Teh Bottleneck - 8/10/12 at 2:52pm
post #164 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teh Bottleneck View Post

No offense,but this seems like a completely unsubstantiated claim...
Can you prove it is a general rule in the gaming industry?
Also,can you explain why are we pairing a bunch of consoles together(PS3,360,and occasionally Wii+handhelds),and pitting them against the PC on its own,instead of doing more balanced comparisons like 360 vs PC,for example?
PC is a very healthy gaming platform,experiencing a lot of growth,and has a lot of developer support.This place is overly pessimistic about its state,there is no sense of optimism,not even a little of that healthy fanboyism to keep the spirits up tongue.gif
I mean,lots of us here invested a lot of money in our PC rigs,only to complain how PC gaming doesn't bring profits,or whatever.I said this many times,and I'll say it again:
Why would ANYONE bother developing for a platform that brings nothing but losses(or minimal,insignifficant profits)?
So,while OCN cries about false threats like piracy,and blows them out of proportion,I'll be trying to tame my huge backlog of great PC games,that are waiting to be played,while enjoying my time doing it smile.gif

I work for game publisher I can confirm that the average AAA (important) game gets about 10% of it's sales from the PC release. Don't have any numbers I can actually share with you though so it's up to you if you want to believe it or not.

And I've worked for multiple game companies and can confirm it's the norm as well. You should be able to google for game sales numbers, you'll see that for many multiplatform titles it's not common for consoles to get about 90% of sales. In some cases where a game is well liked by PC gamers (or a previous version of the game was well-liked on PC), those numbers will shift to 80/20 or sometimes 75/25. One thing to realize as well is that PC is one platform, consoles is 3.
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post #165 of 229
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Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

And I've worked for multiple game companies and can confirm it's the norm as well. You should be able to google for game sales numbers, you'll see that for many multiplatform titles it's not common for consoles to get about 90% of sales. In some cases where a game is well liked by PC gamers (or a previous version of the game was well-liked on PC), those numbers will shift to 80/20 or sometimes 75/25. One thing to realize as well is that PC is one platform, consoles is 3.
And another thing to consider,DD market on the PC is in constant growth,with Steam being by far the dominant DD platform(~70% of the marketshare),however,no market analyst sites like NPD or VGChartz ever have data on copies sold by Steam,or by other DD stores.They're just about retail PC copies,and that part of the market considerably slowed down...

There is also the matter of revenue,where it's know that the Steam takes smaller revenue cuts compared to retailer chains like Gamestop,so dev/pub gets more money from individual DD sale,also,there are no large publishing fees on the PC,and there are no console vendors that take their cut of the sale.Which means PC games need to sold less copies to achieve more profit.And as I said multiple times in this thread,why would anyone bother developing for a platform that brings out only losses,or small,insignifficant profits?

Also,you're the game developer,and a part of the gaming industry,could you please explain why is PC always being pitted on its own against all the consoles(360,PS3,sometimes even Wii+handhelds),why the comparisons aren't balanced,like PC vs. 360,for example?
Edited by Teh Bottleneck - 8/10/12 at 10:50pm
post #166 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teh Bottleneck View Post

And another thing to consider,DD market on the PC is in constant growth,with Steam being by far the dominant DD platform(~70% of the marketshare),however,no market analyst sites like NPD or VGChartz ever have data on copies sold by Steam,or by other DD stores.They're just about retail PC copies,and that part of the market considerably slowed down...
There is also the matter of revenue,where it's know that the Steam takes smaller revenue cuts compared to retailer chains like Gamestop,so dev/pub gets more money from individual DD sale,also,there are no large publishing fees on the PC,and there are no console vendors that take their cut of the sale.Which means PC games need to sold less copies to achieve more profit.And as I said multiple times in this thread,why would anyone bother developing for a platform that brings out only losses,or small,insignifficant profits?
Also,you're the game developer,and a part of the gaming industry,could you please explain why is PC always being pitted on its own against all the consoles(360,PS3,sometimes even Wii+handhelds),why the comparisons aren't balanced,like PC vs. 360,for example?

I really think Steam marketshare is very overrated, CDP themselves said that 75% of sales of the Witcher 2 came from retail copies, Steam and other DD retailers may be the majority in the US but I don't think it's the case in the rest of the world, especially with Steam outrageous prices here in Europe.

On the second point, IMO consoles seem to be bunched up in terms of sales because to be honest, they are almost the same platform in terms of games. It's just that the 360 dominates in the US, PS3 in Japan and about equal in Europe with a small PS3 lead. You can't really differentiate (spelling? sorry not an English native speaker) them like previous generation platforms. In a publisher mind both consoles are just the same market I think.
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post #167 of 229
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Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

That's terrible, even on consoles. Especially considering Dark Souls is one of the ugliest console games out there.
But no one plays this sort of game for graphics. You're delusional if you are.

Indeed, I just found a PS3 (old school fat with 40GB drive) so this was the first game I picked up. Sadly though I had to buy a controller so can't play till tomorrow :/ The only thing wrong with the PS3 was the back power solder points popped off too.

All the shops in a 25 mile area had no PS3 controllers and the only shop that did wanted $35 for a USED one. Got one off ebay for $8 tongue.gif
    
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post #168 of 229
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Originally Posted by Telimektar View Post

I really think Steam marketshare is very overrated, CDP themselves said that 75% of sales of the Witcher 2 came from retail copies, Steam and other DD retailers may be the majority in the US but I don't think it's the case in the rest of the world, especially with Steam outrageous prices here in Europe.
On the second point, IMO consoles seem to be bunched up in terms of sales because to be honest, they are almost the same platform in terms of games. It's just that the 360 dominates in the US, PS3 in Japan and about equal in Europe with a small PS3 lead. You can't really differentiate (spelling? sorry not an English native speaker) them like previous generation platforms. In a publisher mind both consoles are just the same market I think.
Oh,should've worded the part about marketshare more carefully.I wanted to say,Steam makes ~70% of the marketshare in the PC DD market,not the PC overall market.
Here:http://www.shacknews.com/article/61336/stardock-estimates-70-market-share
I know it's an outdated article,back from 2009,but I think it's still relevant,since aside from EA Origin,not much has changed in the DD market,Steam still hasn't gotten a serious or threatening competitor.It only got more popular,and increased the userbase...

And yes,you are correct about Witcher 2 retail sales,but that's just one game,it's impossible to draw conclusions from such a small sample.I'm not really arguing to prove you guys wrong,I'm just trying to prove there is not enough proof to back up these various "PC gaming is losing ground" assertations,due to constant lack of DD sales info.We're not getting the whole picture,while DD market on the PC is on the constant growth,and while PC continues to have large developer support...
Edited by Teh Bottleneck - 8/11/12 at 12:10am
post #169 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teh Bottleneck View Post

Oh,should've worded the part about marketshare more carefully.I wanted to say,Steam makes ~70% of the marketshare in the PC DD market,not the PC overall market.
Here:http://www.shacknews.com/article/61336/stardock-estimates-70-market-share
I know it's an outdated article,back from 2009,but I think it's still relevant,since aside from EA Origin,not much has changed in the DD market,Steam still hasn't gotten a serious or threatening competitor...
And yes,you are correct about Witcher 2 retail sales,but that's just one game,it's impossible to draw conclusions from such a small sample.I'm not really arguing to prove you guys wrong,I'm just trying to prove there is not enough proof to back up these various "PC gaming is losing ground" assertations,due to constant lack of DD sales info.We're not getting the whole picture,while DD market on the PC is on the constant growth,and while PC continues to have large developer support...

Ah that makes sense then, I can believe that, maybe ven more now, which is a bit sad since it means Steam is becoming a monopoly.

About the developer support, it's true about indie developers maybe, which is a good thing, but mainstream developers support (and primarily publishers, which are the guys responsible for those kind of decisions, not the little guys developing the game, which makes me angry every time i see "lazy devs" mentionned, they work with the budget and time allocated to them, they're not the one to blame for shaddy ports) is becoming rarer and rarer, or delayed. Big AAA titles are necessary to the survival of a platform wether we like it or not.
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post #170 of 229
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Originally Posted by Telimektar View Post

Ah that makes sense then, I can believe that, maybe ven more now, which is a bit sad since it means Steam is becoming a monopoly.
About the developer support, it's true about indie developers maybe, which is a good thing, but mainstream developers support (and primarily publishers, which are the guys responsible for those kind of decisions, not the little guys developing the game, which makes me angry every time i see "lazy devs" mentionned, they work with the budget and time allocated to them, they're not the one to blame for shaddy ports) is becoming rarer and rarer, or delayed. Big AAA titles are necessary to the survival of a platform wether we like it or not.
I don't think we should worry about Steam becoming a monopoly.Yes,they don't have serious competition,but they still have competition that should be capable of maintaining a status quo...

As for lack of mainstream support,well,I don't really agree with that.Aside from Ubisoft "AAA" titles,there aren't too many delays on the PC.Also,many mainstream publishers add PC exclusive features to their games,like DX11,or modding tools...

Ubisoft is the only high-profile dev in the industry that is fully blind to the capabilities offered by the PC platform,and sticks to the "buh buh piracy" nonsense(despite publishing PC exclusives like Anno 2070,and Heroes 6).Both EA and Activision invested a lot in the PC,and it paid off for them(even though I'm not a fan of either)...

I never honestly felt the PC lacking in high-profile games.Only "AAA" multiplat game in the industry I truly miss not having on the PC is Red Dead Redemption.But let's be honest,there are many similiar situations on consoles,where PS3 misses out on a good PC/360 game,or where the 360 misses out on a good PC/PS3 game...
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