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post #21 of 30
BF3 couldn't care less what processor your computer uses, except on very large multiplayer maps. Other games, however, will do better with the higher per-core performance of Intel, such as SC2 and Skyrim. And even games that can use a quad-core don't do as badly on the i3 as you think, since the hyperthreading actually comes into play there.

Most games, however, really do care what GPU you're running. And WoW in particular shows some perks if you run it off an SSD (it loads some data into RAM on the fly, unlike most games). So it seems to me that you want to get an i3+cheap mobo. Not a more expensive AMD chip or Intel full-quad, and not while planning upgrades. Get the best you can now. Especially since more likely than not your friend will just play it for some years without getting into upgrades. And if he's not computer savvy, he won't have to overclock (a necessity to get good performance from an AMD chip). Here's my advice:

Alternative monitor: ASUS VS229H-P ($156) - it's 1.5 inches smaller, but is otherwise superior to the Hannspree monitor you have picked out in the OP. (Mmmm, IPS.)
http://www.buy.com/prod/asus-vs229h-p-21-5-led-backit-lcd-monitor-50-000-000-1-14ms-1920x1080/224928560.html?listingId=-1

Tower Sub-total (not including GPU & optional SSD): $366 Core tower components (Click to show)
CPU: i3-2120 ($115)
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=59192&vpn=BX80623I32120&manufacture=Intel

Mobo: ASUS H61 ($50) This is not a board you plan for upgrades with. But, cheap.
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=69091&vpn=P8H61%2DM%20LX%20PLUS%20REV%203%2E0&manufacture=ASUS&promoid=1371

RAM: Mushkin 2x4gb 1333mhz kit ($30)
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=55544&vpn=996770&manufacture=Mushkin%20Enhanced&promoid=1043

Case: Bit Fenix Outlaw ($40) - or replace with the Zalman z9 if you want flashier/slightly worse quality
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=63255&vpn=BFC%2DOLW%2D100%2DKKN1%2DRP&manufacture=BitFenix&promoid=1371

PSU: Antec Neo Eco 450c ($40) - Don't get a Corsair cx430 v2, they have a relatively high probability of developing coil whine.
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=60491&vpn=NEO%2DECO450C&manufacture=Antec&promoid=1043

HDD: Seagate Barracuda 1TB ($78) - The 2tb version is only $100, btw. Pretty good deal if you might use that much space.
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=65701&vpn=ST1000DM003&manufacture=Others&promoid=1043

DVD-burner ($13)
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=45244&vpn=IHAS124%2D04&manufacture=Liteon&promoid=1371

Note also that spoiler includes some good deals on PSU/Case/etc. you might select even if you don't go with the whole build. us.ncix.com offers free shipping on any order exceeding $50.

So, now we have $278 available for a GPU. One option would be to go $22 over budget (or cut out the DVD-burner & reduce HDD size to 500gb) and splurge on a $300 GTX 660ti. This is a better card than any you've considered so far. You can even get a 660ti with a custom cooler from MSI for that price:
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=75201&vpn=N660TI%20PE2GD5%2FOC&manufacture=Others

Come to think of it, that's exactly what I'd do. Go for the 660ti. It's going to be far and away a better video card than I expected to fit in this budget. And I pride myself on squeezing extra upgrades into small budget builds. The 660ti is also better than any card you've considered to this point. That puts your total at $822 or a tad under $800 if you drop the DVD-burner & go down to a 500gb hard drive.

Another option goes for a mid-range GPU & an SSD. This option emphasizes WoW luxury while reducing the graphics settings available on harder to run games (essentially, a mid-range card will max WoW's graphics, but will not allow as much shinies in a game like BF3). For example, adding both an EVGA 560 + 180gb Intel 330 to the build would come to $787 AMIR ($817 at checkout):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130664
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=71145&vpn=SSDSC2CT180A3K5&manufacture=Intel&promoid=1371

Lastly, please note this build includes a fair amount of specials. The same prices may not be available in even a day or 2, so be prepared for some shift if you're not certain what you want yet.

Edit: Build Comparisons (Click to show)
How does my build compare to previous builds in this thread? Well going part by part from KyadCK's revised build:
CPU: If you heavily overclock the Phenom II 965, then Kyad's build will equivalent performance in dual-threaded tasks, and a little better performance in quad-threaded tasks. Note: the Phenom requires OC expertise to gain any advantage over the i3 (or even equalize for most gaming) & also could be somewhat loud (he uses the stock cooler).
Mobo: Aside from being able to overclock the above CPU, the mobo in Kyad's build will have more expansion slots and other (minor/unnecessary) perks.
GPU: This is the big advantage of my build. The 7850 is a tier below the 660ti and is notably inferior (it is a step above a 560 though, if you were considering an SSD)
RAM: a wash. I suggest slower RAM, but Intel builds don't really care about RAM speed
PSU: An Intel build won't need the bigger PSU for overclocking headroom.
HDD: Mine's bigger, but this is a minor point:
Monitor: The monitor I suggest is slightly better quality & the same size as the one KyadCK suggests.
Case: A wash. Both are good budget performers.

Compared to pooperscooper's build:
significantly better GPU (also slightly better hard drive, case, & monitor) at the cost of an inferior CPU - though I consider this a good trade for a gamer.

Edited by MisterFred - 8/17/12 at 10:39pm
    
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post #22 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterFred View Post

BF3 couldn't care less what processor your computer uses, except on very large multiplayer maps. Other games, however, will do better with the higher per-core performance of Intel, such as SC2 and Skyrim. And even games that can use a quad-core don't do as badly on the i3 as you think, since the hyperthreading actually comes into play there.
Most games, however, really do care what GPU you're running. And WoW in particular shows some perks if you run it off an SSD (it loads some data into RAM on the fly, unlike most games). So it seems to me that you want to get an i3+cheap mobo. Not a more expensive AMD chip or Intel full-quad, and not while planning upgrades. Get the best you can now. Especially since more likely than not your friend will just play it for some years without getting into upgrades. And if he's not computer savvy, he won't have to overclock (a necessity to get good performance from an AMD chip). Here's my advice:
Alternative monitor: ASUS VS229H-P ($156) - it's 1.5 inches smaller, but is otherwise superior to the Hannspree monitor you have picked out in the OP. (Mmmm, IPS.)
http://www.buy.com/prod/asus-vs229h-p-21-5-led-backit-lcd-monitor-50-000-000-1-14ms-1920x1080/224928560.html?listingId=-1
Tower Sub-total (not including GPU & optional SSD): $366 Core tower components (Click to show)
CPU: i3-2120 ($115)
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=59192&vpn=BX80623I32120&manufacture=Intel
Mobo: ASUS H61 ($50) This is not a board you plan for upgrades with. But, cheap.
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=69091&vpn=P8H61%2DM%20LX%20PLUS%20REV%203%2E0&manufacture=ASUS&promoid=1371
RAM: Mushkin 2x4gb 1333mhz kit ($30)
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=55544&vpn=996770&manufacture=Mushkin%20Enhanced&promoid=1043
Case: Bit Fenix Outlaw ($40) - or replace with the Zalman z9 if you want flashier/slightly worse quality
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=63255&vpn=BFC%2DOLW%2D100%2DKKN1%2DRP&manufacture=BitFenix&promoid=1371
PSU: Antec Neo Eco 450c ($40) - Don't get a Corsair cx430 v2, they have a relatively high probability of developing coil whine.
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=60491&vpn=NEO%2DECO450C&manufacture=Antec&promoid=1043
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 1TB ($78) - The 2tb version is only $100, btw. Pretty good deal if you might use that much space.
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=65701&vpn=ST1000DM003&manufacture=Others&promoid=1043
DVD-burner ($13)
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=45244&vpn=IHAS124%2D04&manufacture=Liteon&promoid=1371
Note also that spoiler includes some good deals on PSU/Case/etc. you might select even if you don't go with the whole build. us.ncix.com offers free shipping on any order exceeding $50.
So, now we have $278 available for a GPU. One option would be to go $22 over budget (or cut out the DVD-burner & reduce HDD size to 500gb) and splurge on a $300 GTX 660ti. This is a better card than any you've considered so far. You can even get a 660ti with a custom cooler from MSI for that price:
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=75201&vpn=N660TI%20PE2GD5%2FOC&manufacture=Others
Come to think of it, that's exactly what I'd do. Go for the 660ti. It's going to be far and away a better video card than I expected to fit in this budget. And I pride myself on squeezing extra upgrades into small budget builds. The 660ti is also better than any card you've considered to this point. That puts your total at $822 or a tad under $800 if you drop the DVD-burner & go down to a 500gb hard drive.
Another option goes for a mid-range GPU & an SSD. This option emphasizes WoW luxury while reducing the graphics settings available on harder to run games (essentially, a mid-range card will max WoW's graphics, but will not allow as much shinies in a game like BF3). For example, adding both an EVGA 560 + 180gb Intel 330 to the build would come to $787 AMIR ($817 at checkout):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130664
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=71145&vpn=SSDSC2CT180A3K5&manufacture=Intel&promoid=1371
Lastly, please note this build includes a fair amount of specials. The same prices may not be available in even a day or 2, so be prepared for some shift if you're not certain what you want yet.
Edit: Build Comparisons (Click to show)
How does my build compare to previous builds in this thread? Well going part by part from KyadCK's revised build:
CPU: If you heavily overclock the Phenom II 965, then Kyad's build will equivalent performance in dual-threaded tasks, and a little better performance in quad-threaded tasks. Note: the Phenom requires OC expertise to gain any advantage over the i3 (or even equalize for most gaming) & also could be somewhat loud (he uses the stock cooler).
Mobo: Aside from being able to overclock the above CPU, the mobo in Kyad's build will have more expansion slots and other (minor/unnecessary) perks.
GPU: This is the big advantage of my build. The 7850 is a tier below the 660ti and is notably inferior (it is a step above a 560 though, if you were considering an SSD)
RAM: a wash. I suggest slower RAM, but Intel builds don't really care about RAM speed
PSU: An Intel build won't need the bigger PSU for overclocking headroom.
HDD: Mine's bigger, but this is a minor point:
Monitor: The monitor I suggest is slightly better quality & the same size as the one KyadCK suggests.
Case: A wash. Both are good budget performers.
Compared to pooperscooper's build:
significantly better GPU (also slightly better hard drive, case, & monitor) at the cost of an inferior CPU - though I consider this a good trade for a gamer.
see, i like this build over mine, but you have to remember, a 6850 is still a good gpu, and an i5 3570k is a great cpu.
post #23 of 30
If you're building a gaming rig and you aren't going to be doing any overclocking, then you really should go Intel. I gave someone else on here the same advice a few days ago. The AMD platforms are a great deal if you're overclocking, especially if you get a 970 or 990 motherboard that will be Piledriver-ready. But if you're building for someone else, and there's no overclocking and you want everything to "just work," and it's just a gaming rig, then and only then should you buy a bargain-basement i3 and the best video card that fits in the budget, and be done with it. The i3 is strong enough to drive the video card and it's also good enough for everyday computing tasks. As time goes on and assembly tools allow software developers to use more cores, the i3 will become a dog, but by the time that happens, your friend will have moved on.
     
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post #24 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterFred View Post

BF3 couldn't care less what processor your computer uses, except on very large multiplayer maps. Other games, however, will do better with the higher per-core performance of Intel, such as SC2 and Skyrim. And even games that can use a quad-core don't do as badly on the i3 as you think, since the hyperthreading actually comes into play there.
Most games, however, really do care what GPU you're running. And WoW in particular shows some perks if you run it off an SSD (it loads some data into RAM on the fly, unlike most games). So it seems to me that you want to get an i3+cheap mobo. Not a more expensive AMD chip or Intel full-quad, and not while planning upgrades. Get the best you can now. Especially since more likely than not your friend will just play it for some years without getting into upgrades. And if he's not computer savvy, he won't have to overclock (a necessity to get good performance from an AMD chip).

965BE: $109.99
i3-2120: $115

More expensive huh?

Because the 900-series board has no upgrade path at all, right?

Also, bull, you do not have to OC a Ph II to get good performance.

I have no problem with your build suggestion, it's a good one, but don't out and out lie.
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post #25 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

965BE: $109.99
i3-2120: $115
More expensive huh?
Because the 900-series board has no upgrade path at all, right?
Also, bull, you do not have to OC a Ph II to get good performance.
I have no problem with your build suggestion, it's a good one, but don't out and out lie.

Hmm. Merely some mis-understandings here. In general when considering processor cost, I consider wholistic costs, not just the CPU. For instance:
i3-2120 + H61 mobo = $115+$50 = $165
965be + mobo you picked + at least $15 for a better PSU than an Antec Neo Eco 450c for overclocking an AMD cpu = $110+$90+~$10 = $215

So I stand by my statement that a Phenom is more expensive than an i3. Because you can't run a processor without a mobo & psu. I'm also sensitive to loud computers, and with an AMD processor you should overclock, so by my way of looking at it, a Phenom requires at least another $20 for an aftermarket cooler. I don't see any reason to look at just the CPU cost, to me it's $50-$75 more to go with a Phenom II 965be rather than an i3-2120.

As for whether you have to OC a Phenom II to get good performance: depends on the game you play. In the games I play most often (SC2 & Skyrim), which are often CPU-dependent, you need to overclock the phenom II to at least 4.0ghz to approach even performance with an i3. So I stand by my statement you need to overclock to get good gaming performance out of a Phenom II. For other games that care less about CPU, sure, you can run just fine on a non-overclocked Phenom. But then see price difference above. An i3 is cheaper.

Thanks for the compliment on my build. I thought yours was better than most I see recommended on OCN as well.

P.S. As to upgrade path, there I was referring to the fact that the H61 board I recommended doesn't really have an upgrade path. I mean technically you could put a locked ivy bridge in there, like an i5-3450, but when it comes around to upgrade time there will be better options, so I consider it a board with no upgrade potential.
Edited by MisterFred - 8/18/12 at 6:16am
    
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post #26 of 30
newegg 48 hour sale:
PNY GTX 560 TI $200- 30 MIR
Asrock H77M motherboard $60 code EMCYTZT2078
Samsung F3 1TB $70
Windows 7 SP1 $80 EMCYTZT2082

i run an I5 2400, this is certainly an upgrade path, not everyone overclocks. As a trade off to low cost the I5 2xxx or I5 3xxx offer a great deal.
Edited by brasslad - 8/18/12 at 6:57am
post #27 of 30
Tthe 2120 is very good, $125. The G630 can be a placeholder till an upgrade too around $65
The 2310 is $180
Edited by brasslad - 8/18/12 at 7:05am
post #28 of 30
post #29 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterFred View Post

Hmm. Merely some mis-understandings here. In general when considering processor cost, I consider wholistic costs, not just the CPU. For instance:
i3-2120 + H61 mobo = $115+$50 = $165
965be + mobo you picked + at least $15 for a better PSU than an Antec Neo Eco 450c for overclocking an AMD cpu = $110+$90+~$10 = $215
So I stand by my statement that a Phenom is more expensive than an i3. Because you can't run a processor without a mobo & psu. I'm also sensitive to loud computers, and with an AMD processor you should overclock, so by my way of looking at it, a Phenom requires at least another $20 for an aftermarket cooler. I don't see any reason to look at just the CPU cost, to me it's $50-$75 more to go with a Phenom II 965be rather than an i3-2120.
As for whether you have to OC a Phenom II to get good performance: depends on the game you play. In the games I play most often (SC2 & Skyrim), which are often CPU-dependent, you need to overclock the phenom II to at least 4.0ghz to approach even performance with an i3. So I stand by my statement you need to overclock to get good gaming performance out of a Phenom II. For other games that care less about CPU, sure, you can run just fine on a non-overclocked Phenom. But then see price difference above. An i3 is cheaper.
Thanks for the compliment on my build. I thought yours was better than most I see recommended on OCN as well.
P.S. As to upgrade path, there I was referring to the fact that the H61 board I recommended doesn't really have an upgrade path. I mean technically you could put a locked ivy bridge in there, like an i5-3450, but when it comes around to upgrade time there will be better options, so I consider it a board with no upgrade potential.

Ya, quite the misunderstanding apparently.

True, but I intentionally picked a board with some variation of an upgrade path. You still can OC on a 970a, and you'll have BD, PD, and maybe even limited SR support if AMD continues backward compatibility. If I went for the cheapest board, I'm sure they'd come out even, and you wouldn't be able to OC either of them. tongue.gif Shame Ivy i3s aren't out, then a cheap Ivy board would have ensured an easy CPU upgrade.

Ya, for big SC II games I can see it. Although I will say that a 955 + 5770 (stock) had no problem playing Skyrim almost maxed (AA, AF and shadows only on medium or so, it is a 5770) for my friend. He probably isn't as picky about FPS or stutter as we are though. The lag tree was, of course, laggy, but for most of the game it was smooth enough. Obviously my 970 at 4.0 was better, so I'll concede the point.
Quote:
Why don't you pick a GPU from the market place?

Heck, find all the parts you can from there. GPUs are always a good deal, but you might be able to find some RAM on the cheap or maybe an un-needed motherboard.
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post #30 of 30
Thread Starter 
Bump!!! I'd rather continue this wonderful thread than bother starting a new one. Refer to my new component list in my first post. You guys have been a great help so far and i'm still open to suggestions! biggrin.gif
     
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k @ 4.0ghz Asrock Z68 Extreme 3 Gen 3 Diamond HD 6950 2gb @ 900MHz core 1400MHz mem Gskill Ripjaws 8gb 1600MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Hitatchi 500gb Liteon DVD 22x Arctic Cooling i30 Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Acer 23" 1080p 5ms response Adesso MKB-135B Mechanical keyboard hec X-Power Pro 650 Antec Three Hundred 
MouseAudio
Engage Wired Optical Mouse Plantronics Gamecom 780 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
RP2803 1.79Mhz NES motherboard RP2C02 5.37MHz 2KB onboard RAM 
Optical DriveCaseMouse
Cartridge Reader NES case NES controller 
CPUMotherboardRAMHard Drive
A10 5800k stock Gigabyte A85X Crucial ballistix 8gb @ 1866MHz Western Digital 250gb 
Optical DriveCoolingOSPower
Gateway DVD drive Stock fan Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit corsair Builder series 430W 
Case
Raidmax Tornado Blue 
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