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[TweakTown] Nvidia's Strong-arm Tactics - How they treat GPU Partners and Media - Page 6

post #51 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBEG View Post

It's not a matter of 'strong-arming' anyone. TT behaves like children who don't get their way. You can clear the air professionally and with tact. They did not. As far as I've read on several articles on their site, 'tact' would seem a foreign concept. Not getting your way as a small media outlet vs a big GPU company? Fine. Nut up and go about your life. If you're doing nothing wrong, do them the same courtesy they do you and ignore them. If push comes to shove and lawyers get involved, and there is documentation to show that no (civil) wrong-doing occurred, then there's no issue.
So far as I know, TT and XFX are the names mentioned almost exclusively concerning Nvidia's shutouts. This might be called a clue that, believe it or not, more is at work than what is being so tactfully shared.

I guess you need to read the article again because they tried to clear the air. I don't think TT is saying there was any wrong doing. The article was published because of the MSI thing. Nvidia not doing something legally wrong though doesn't mean that they aren't acting like bullies.

Regardless Nvidia going through MSI to get to TT is shady. And Nvidia not allowing a board partner to release a fan design is ridiculous. And like I said earlier we have an industry person in this thread saying not to dismiss the article. Clearly there is something there.

Oh and just to preempt this because I know it's coming. There is no reason not to believe TT's reporting of both issues. They have been around for fifteen years. Their content has been syndicated all the way from CNN to PC gaming rags and they have no prior incidents of lying. Not only that but their reviews and reporting of Nvidia products has been unbiased despite the drama. They get the benefit of the doubt by any reasonable journalistic standard.
Edited by jtom320 - 8/17/12 at 9:30pm
    
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post #52 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBEG View Post

I would certainly deny a review site a sample if they behave like children who don't get their way. If I'm going to put trust in a small media outfit, then they'll need to impress me. Tweak has done nothing at all to impress me. Why then would I give them a review sample?
It's not a matter of 'strong-arming' anyone. TT brings much (maybe all, who knows) of this on themselves by their own behavior. You can clear the air professionally and with tact. They did not. As far as I've read on several articles on their site, 'tact' would seem a foreign concept. Not getting your way as a small media outlet vs a big GPU company? Fine. Nut up and go about your life. If you're doing nothing wrong, do them the same courtesy they do you and ignore them. If push comes to shove and lawyers get involved, and there is documentation to show that no (civil) wrong-doing occurred, then there's no issue.
So far as I know, TT and XFX are the names mentioned almost exclusively concerning Nvidia's shutouts. This might be called a clue that, believe it or not, more is at work than what is being so tactfully shared.

You sir obviously did not read the articles, or the replies in this thread for that matter.

TT tried to clear the air professionally and keep business going with Nvidia. Nvidia Said....Well they weren't professional enough to even say no.

They gave TT the middle finger to all their replies (by TT's count alot) and the lone response they did get a long time ago was "were to busy".

Edit - Also as Jtom stated the cooler design is ridiculous. That's Apple tactics right their, Hindering performance for their own benefit and not the consumers.
Edited by Crizume - 8/17/12 at 9:24pm
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post #53 of 286
Nvidia's arrogance has a history. XFX used to be a Nvidia only partner till the AMD HD 4800 series launched. After the success of the HD 4870 / 4850 XFX decided to support AMD too and XFX started selling HD 4870 / HD 4850 cards. That must have really pissed off Nvidia. Because XFX was like EVGA a premier Nvidia only partner. Exactly 1 generation later before the Fermi launch Nvidia parted ways with XFX completely cutting them off their partner list.

http://hardocp.com/news/2010/01/09/gpu_news_from_ces/

Nvidia's attitude is typical of the dominant companies in any industry. You can't change human nature. As they say " Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely" . completely true.
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post #54 of 286
Would either of you care to describe, quote if possible, the professional/tactful clearing of the air that TT attempted? Because I've read the article twice now, and once earlier at work, and still haven't found it.

Nothing requires Nvidia to work with a media outlet. Nothing requires equal treatment amongst media outlets. Quite frankly, given the diversity in testing methods, inclusiveness of features, quality of editing, and other factors, it would be outright ridiculous to treat everyone equally when the media outlets themselves are anything but equal. Nvidia would be sending out an absurd number of review samples to what I can only imagine would be a hell of a lot of unknown entities who may or may not respect NDAs. If one outlet that I had sent reviews to started releasing early information in response to not receiving a review sample, even without an NDA involved, why in God's green earth would that convince me to suddenly send a review sample? What do I owe them?

I'm not defending Nvidia's business ethic; I have no doubt there are few angels amongst that workplace. But it is not even slightly mysterious to me why TweakTown is, and has been for some time, refused review samples. The fact that MSI contacted them as they did is a very obvious indication that there is more at work than is being described in the article. While I don't typically disagree with Phaedrus, the exact same statement can be reversed and be equally believable: why would Nvidia suddenly pressure what is arguably its biggest customer into not sending samples to a particular media outlet?

Stop defending anyone at all and start trying to see the bigger picture. Who stands to gain anything by any of this nonsense?
Edited by BBEG - 8/17/12 at 9:40pm
    
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post #55 of 286
It's been a long time since I have found a Tweak Town article or review useful... Also, circumventing the NDA and releasing views early is not an appropriate method to get nVidia to reconsider their stance. Their actions are self-serving and they are not the victims they would like us to believe they are, even if they were indeed wronged at one point (I have no information to confirm whether or not they were).
    
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post #56 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBEG View Post

Would either of you care to describe, quote if possible, the professional/tactful clearing of the air that TT attempted? Because I've read the article twice now, and once earlier at work, and still haven't found it.
Nothing requires Nvidia to work with a media outlet. Nothing requires equal treatment amongst media outlets. Quite frankly, given the diversity in testing methods, inclusiveness of features, quality of editing, and other factors, it would be outright ridiculous to treat everyone equally when the media outlets themselves are anything but equal. Nvidia would be sending out an absurd number of review samples to what I can only imagine would be a hell of a lot of unknown entities who may or may not respect NDAs. If one outlet that I had sent reviews to started releasing early information in response to not receiving a review sample, even without an NDA involved, why in God's green earth would that convince me to suddenly send a review sample? What do I owe them?
I'm not defending Nvidia's business ethic; I have no doubt there are few angels amongst that workplace. But it is not even slightly mysterious to me why TweakTown is, and has been for some time, refused review samples. The fact that MSI contacted them as they did is a very obvious indication that there is more at work than is being described in the article. While I don't typically disagree with Phaedrus, the exact same statement can be reversed and be equally believable: why would Nvidia suddenly pressure what is arguably its biggest customer into not sending samples to a particular media outlet?
Stop defending anyone at all and start trying to see the bigger picture. Who stands to gain anything by any of this nonsense?

Nvidia doesn't owe TT anything but let's not act like TT is just some rando blog asking for a review sample. And TT never broke NDA when they were getting review samples. The way I read it TT stoped fighting for them basically because Nvidia wouldn't give them the time of day. The specifics of it no one knows but there's no reason to doubt them. Like you said what do they have to gain?

Anyway not sure how MSI contacing them means anything when MSI themselves said that they didn't break NDA. Like I said above there is no reason to doubt TT's version of events (on what MSI said) considering they have no history that I know of of lying, have been around for many years and have a lot of syndicated content. Not saying they are the end all be all of review sites but they certainly get the benefit of the doubt.

As far as who stands to gain I don't think anyone does. Clearly it's personal between TT and Nvidia and someone over at Nvidia decided to throw their weight around. I'm sure they are tired of TT breaking NDA (which they havent' signed) every time Nvidia releases a card.

Also I'm not defending anything. I don't read TT and their review suite is garbage. In fact what I take from this is more that Nvidia won't allow a board partner to release a custom fan design. For whatever reason that's lol worthy and shows you just the type of group they are.
Quote:
Badmouth Nvidia? Shame on you. They are perfect.

Remember when EK first came to light and everyone flamed the people who said negative things about EK?

I applaud Tweaktown for standing for what they do.

EK, another tech company run by trash. I do remember that.
Edited by jtom320 - 8/17/12 at 9:55pm
    
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post #57 of 286
Badmouth Nvidia? Shame on you. They are perfect.

Remember when EK first came to light and everyone flamed the people who said negative things about EK?

I applaud Tweaktown for standing for what they do.
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post #58 of 286
From the early leaked 680 review


We've sent countless email and the fact this is going up before NDA time is going to annoy a lot of people. In our defense, we don't actually know the NDA time because NVIDIA Taiwan won't respond.. ..We're happy to play by the rules NVIDIA set, but they've decided to stop setting them for us. If NVIDIA North America wants to blame anyone, though, for the early release, blame your Taiwan office - we aren't going to single out anyone, but you know the culprit. We'll happily forward the emails we sent them that were blatantly ignored. You'll see we tried to play nice from our end.
Read more at http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4622/nvidia_geforce_gtx_680_kepler_2gb_reference_card_video_card_review/index.html#yc7J7LyB77YiSFmb.99

Heck, Shane Baxtor (our video card editor) even moved to Taiwan and around that time of his move NVIDIA Taiwan office said they were "too busy" to meet him.
Read more at http://www.tweaktown.com/news/23927/why_we_didn_t_have_an_nvidia_geforce_gtx_690_launch_review_at_tweaktown/index.html#w7IO740tAW1yHkYU.99

Again Their is obviously more to this story and we are only hearing one side.

But to TT"s credit they still highly regard the 670 and 680 just look at the reviews even though they obviously dislike Nvidia.
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post #59 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterFire View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tahayassen View Post

They're NDA-free because they actually have to buy the graphics cards unlike other reviewers...
NVidia is incredibly arrogant. When AMD tried to buy Nvidia, Nvidia's CEO wanted to be the CEO of both AMD and Nvidia.
They also refuse to give Linux proper drives. I wish they would just die off, but then that would cause a monopoly in the graphics card industry.

What else would you say if you were CEO of a prospering company at the point of a potential take-over by a company that is not doing quite as well as yours.

...At the time AMD was doing just as well if not better than nVidia due to the Athlon64? They bought ATI in 2006, the year the Core 2 Duo came out and you can bet talks were in progress a lot longer than that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by USFORCES View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tahayassen View Post

What? AMD was doing incredibly well at the time. In fact, they were doing so well that they had enough money to buy Nvidia. If AMD can buy Nvidia, I'm not sure how Nvidia would be doing better than AMD.
This is the reason why XFX stopped making Nvidia cards.

This is the reason why XFX stopped making Nvidia cards?
I think it was more like why XFX wasn't given nvidia cards to sell anymore wink.gif
Quote:
XFX was actually selling and supporting Nvidia cards, just not Fermi based ones. The story is rather simple. XFX started selling ATI, Nvidia got mad and told them that they won’t get Fermi based cards. XFX wanted to offer AMD boards and many gamers actually saw this as a great move and because it could make some nice money and market share of course.

Nvidia didn’t cut XFX completely off as the company continued to sell anything from Nvidia but Fermi. Over the summer Nvidia launched the rest of Geforce GTX 400 family, but they didn’t give any to XFX.

XFX told us earlier that as of this day, they officially stop selling any Nvidia cards. This is a direct action after Nvidia’s decision to de-authorise XFX from approved partner list. The decision to stop working with Nvidia doesn’t surprise us as Nvidia simply didn’t send any Fermi chips to XFX and they were encouraging channel partners not to work with XFX, and therefore XFX simply could not sell enough Nvidia cards.

So the partnership is over from both sides and end users can simply stop hoping to see any Nvidia based XFX cards in any near future. Of course end users will suffer and they will simple have to go in some other Nvidia partner's direction.

AMD will of course be jumping to the roof as they and their supporters will profit. If you want XFX you will have to match it with AMD which potentially means more sales for AMD’s graphics part, something that we use to call ATI.

And why did XFX begin selling AMDs cards as well? wink.gif

1) Large dies meant low profit margins
2) nVidia's attitude to it all; "soak it up".
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipmatthew View Post

Here's what i learned by reading the above posts. You guys CLEARLY haven't read the article. They are NOT mad for Nvidia blocking early reviews, they are mad because they couldn't get a partnership with them, and they threatened to CUT OFF MSI mad.gif. Even though MSI isn't the one who supplied them with the early leak. Please read the article BEFORE mindlessly bashing.

But I don't want to read, I want to defend my beloved nVidia from the mean review site!

I don't get where everyone hating on TT have come from, they're not the best site but they're reliable and decent in my experience with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benchmarksli View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tahayassen View Post

They're NDA-free because they actually have to buy the graphics cards unlike other reviewers...
Nvidia is incredibly arrogant. When AMD tried to buy Nvidia, Nvidia's CEO wanted to be the CEO of both AMD and Nvidia.
They also refuse to give Linux proper drives. I wish they would just die off, but then that would cause a monopoly in the graphics card industry.
I feel the same way about AMD, but it's a good chance they might eventually die off.wink.gif

If anyone wants any company to die, they're idiots and fanboys. Bashing? Probably. Truth? Yes. Why would you want AMD to die? It means graphics cards and CPUs will become quite a decent chunk more expensive, or Intel/nVidia would be split up into two separate companies anyway.

And no, AMD isn't going to die off anytime soon, Bulldozer is selling decently and Piledriver looks to be even better, plus the graphics division was pretty much holding the rest of the company up pre-Phenom II.
    
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post #60 of 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by staryoshi View Post

It's been a long time since I have found a Tweak Town article or review useful... Also, circumventing the NDA and releasing views early is not an appropriate method to get nVidia to reconsider their stance. Their actions are self-serving and they are not the victims they would like us to believe they are, even if they were indeed wronged at one point (I have no information to confirm whether or not they were).

Can't believe people like the GPU editor didn't even read the article before making an informed post.

Back on topic: check out this post by Anthony Garreffa:
Quote:
You know what, who is to blame? NVIDIA are wanting to hurt one of their strongest partners, MSI, for what? Because we have a review of an MSI-branded GeForce product? So, NVIDIA are just going to one-by-one start "cutting allocation" to partners, in order to what? Hurt TweakTown?

Who is the immature one here? Really, NVIDIA are a huge company, and at the end of the day, the most important people here are the customers. Customers of these GPUs, and any future NVIDIA product, are going to look at the actions of NVIDIA and wonder if THEY will be treated with the same lack of respect.

NVIDIA's possible future at this not happening again? Dumping ALL partners and making the hardware themselves, even then, all it takes is for us to scoop one from eBay for example from someone working at the company who would eventually leak a product out unless they take an Apple-like stance at security and secrecy.

NVIDIA wanting to hurt MSI is their biggest drawcard here, and that should be the most important part of this story. Good on Cam and Shane for doing this. Don't think that I'm on any side here, as I had no idea of this article, or the going-ons of the GPU side of things behind TT.

NVIDIA, you disappoint. Wanting to hurt MSI really makes me look at you in a different light. What has MSI done to hurt you that much? Sell your products, make great Twin Frozr products, that make YOUR products BETTER than stock that make YOU look better?

:/

Edited by tahayassen - 8/17/12 at 10:14pm
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