Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Power Supplies › 750W or 850W?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

750W or 850W?

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
I am looking for some some advice on a power supply that is good for my upcoming build. I currently have the Corsair Enthusiast TX850M added to my order, but since my CPU is on backorder, I have some time to rethink things. The calculator at http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine shows that I need well under 850W for my design, but it doesn't take into account things such as potential video card or RAM overclocking. My build is as follows:

Case: Silverstone TJ08B-E mATX
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 690 (single card, I want to account for potentially OC'ing this slightly)
CPU: i7-3930K (With interest to overclock it likely as far as 4.3 GHz, but 4.5 and 4.6 seem to be fairly common for this CPU so I want to keep that open).
Motherboard: Rampage IV Gene (mATX x79 board)
Boot HDD: Crucial SSD 256GB M4 (with potential for a 2nd in the future)
Main HDD: Seagate 3TB Barracuda 7200 RPM (I want to leave open the potential of sticking in a second HDD in RAID in the future)
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB DDR3 1600MHz @ 2x8GB (for the potential of OC'ing all 4 DIMMs @ 2133 MHz)
Optical Drive: LG CH12LS28 Blu-Ray
Cooling system: Corsair H80 (although I have been considering the NH-D14 but it gets very close to the 690 in this case on the mATX mb)
PSU chosen: Corsair TX850M


Other information that may be useful:
- I may use several USB slots at once (I have 5 external HDD's and I sometimes have 2 or more plugged in at once including 3.0 USB, laser mouse, keyboard, flight joysticks & yoke, Astro Mixamp, charging my phone, etc.)


Cost is a thing I want to consider. I chose the 850W because it is far more than I was getting on that online calculator (719W recommended). I chose many fans, USB, multiple driver, OC'ing, and other things to get there. Despite this, 750W just doesn't seem enough. I have been looking also at the AX850 and HX850 by Corsair. The prices I will pay for the 850W by Corsair (in Canada) are:
- TX850M: $112.49
- HX850: $149.99
- AX850: $168.49

I am open to other brands, but most people seem to use the Corsair brand so I only focused on those. The current models of the HX and AX are Gold rated. They both look fairly modular. I realize the AX model is made by SeaSonic and the HX by another company, CWT. Is the AX really worth $60 more than the (semi?) modular TX850M? What is the difference between the performance of the HX and AX? All I have learned from other topics is that the AX is quieter due to having a better fan setup.

Thank you in advance.
ARES
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3930k ASUS Rampage IV GENE nVidia 690 GTX Corsair Vengeance LP 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
SeaGate Barracuda 3TB Crucial M4 256GB LG CH12LS28 Blu-Ray Corsair H80 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
Windows 7 Professional x64 SteelSeries 6Gv2 Corsair AX850 Silverstone TJ08-E 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G700 SteelSeries 4HD Onkyo HT-S3300 Sennheiser PC360 
Other
Astro Mixamp Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
ARES
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3930k ASUS Rampage IV GENE nVidia 690 GTX Corsair Vengeance LP 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
SeaGate Barracuda 3TB Crucial M4 256GB LG CH12LS28 Blu-Ray Corsair H80 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
Windows 7 Professional x64 SteelSeries 6Gv2 Corsair AX850 Silverstone TJ08-E 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G700 SteelSeries 4HD Onkyo HT-S3300 Sennheiser PC360 
Other
Astro Mixamp Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #2 of 12

The calculator was very wrong in this calculation, but don't be surprised because it's extremely easy to get this calculator to be highly inaccurate.

 

You'd be fine with a quality 550W power supply:

 

http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-690-review/8

 

Their system with one GTX 690 in it under full load pulled 400W from the wall outlet.  If I add 200W to this power draw, then that would mean that their system would only pull about 510W from their PSU at the most if their PSU is 85% efficient.  Of course, adding 200W is a bit of unrealistic overkill, but I am doing it in order to show just how wrong this calculator was for you.

 

If you're still in doubt, then please do the following:

 

  1. Use the calculator again
  2. Click the calculator's built-in "Print" button
  3. Upload a screenshot of the page that this generates

 

I want to show which settings caused it to be as wrong as it is.

    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.7GHz (1.368V using +0.005 offset) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 580 (ASUS DirectCU II) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
60 GB Callisto Deluxe (C:) 64 GB G.SKILL Falcon (D:) Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Samsung 2253BW (1680 x 1050) Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair HX650 (major overkill, but it was cheap) CM 690 Microsoft Intellimouse Optical Basic, but premium round 
AudioOther
XtremeGamer (low-profile PCB) Altec Lansing VS4121 (2.1 speaker system) 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.7GHz (1.368V using +0.005 offset) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 580 (ASUS DirectCU II) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
60 GB Callisto Deluxe (C:) 64 GB G.SKILL Falcon (D:) Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Samsung 2253BW (1680 x 1050) Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair HX650 (major overkill, but it was cheap) CM 690 Microsoft Intellimouse Optical Basic, but premium round 
AudioOther
XtremeGamer (low-profile PCB) Altec Lansing VS4121 (2.1 speaker system) 
  hide details  
Reply
post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the quick reply. I used the maximum USB slots to account for the possibility and I used a 250W LED fan since the front fan is 180mm and in case I added 3 fans in case I used the NH-D14 instead of the H80 (I understand the error this causes since it would account for 2 cooling systems at once, which I won't have). 550W seems very low since nVidia recommends a 650W for it.

ARES
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3930k ASUS Rampage IV GENE nVidia 690 GTX Corsair Vengeance LP 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
SeaGate Barracuda 3TB Crucial M4 256GB LG CH12LS28 Blu-Ray Corsair H80 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
Windows 7 Professional x64 SteelSeries 6Gv2 Corsair AX850 Silverstone TJ08-E 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G700 SteelSeries 4HD Onkyo HT-S3300 Sennheiser PC360 
Other
Astro Mixamp Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
ARES
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3930k ASUS Rampage IV GENE nVidia 690 GTX Corsair Vengeance LP 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
SeaGate Barracuda 3TB Crucial M4 256GB LG CH12LS28 Blu-Ray Corsair H80 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
Windows 7 Professional x64 SteelSeries 6Gv2 Corsair AX850 Silverstone TJ08-E 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G700 SteelSeries 4HD Onkyo HT-S3300 Sennheiser PC360 
Other
Astro Mixamp Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #4 of 12
I'd say a 650 watt unit, at most 750.

These are the overclocks I'm running.

i7 2700k 1.381V @ 4.8
GTX 690 +135% / +135 core / +325 memory
You can look at my rig for the rest of the stuff.

Playing BF3 I pull over 500 watts, 3dMark11 pulls at most 520. If I remember correctly with prime95 custom blend with 90% of my memory and running OCScannerX at my native resolution of 2560x1440p with all the furry tests enabled and max usage allowed I was around 550. Not counting the ~90% +/- efficiency from my PSU and the fact my Belkin monitor could be off by a few %.
post #5 of 12
Thread Starter 
The 3930k had a load of 516W @ 5 GHz (far higher than I would need) with a 580 GTX at this website: http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4435/intel_core_i7_3930k_lga_2011_cpu_review/index2.html. This and your information make me feel that 750W might be more than enough to power this computer.


I keep seeing countless 3930k + 690 GTX builds with 1000W or 1250W PSU's like this one (http://pcpartpicker.com/b/wU5) and it makes me think 750W or 850W would have been too low. I guess with all of the people buying such huge PSU's, it makes it hard to know what is what. Coming from a notebook, I have a large lack of information on this.
Edited by baconcow - 8/21/12 at 2:28am
ARES
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3930k ASUS Rampage IV GENE nVidia 690 GTX Corsair Vengeance LP 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
SeaGate Barracuda 3TB Crucial M4 256GB LG CH12LS28 Blu-Ray Corsair H80 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
Windows 7 Professional x64 SteelSeries 6Gv2 Corsair AX850 Silverstone TJ08-E 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G700 SteelSeries 4HD Onkyo HT-S3300 Sennheiser PC360 
Other
Astro Mixamp Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
ARES
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3930k ASUS Rampage IV GENE nVidia 690 GTX Corsair Vengeance LP 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
SeaGate Barracuda 3TB Crucial M4 256GB LG CH12LS28 Blu-Ray Corsair H80 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
Windows 7 Professional x64 SteelSeries 6Gv2 Corsair AX850 Silverstone TJ08-E 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G700 SteelSeries 4HD Onkyo HT-S3300 Sennheiser PC360 
Other
Astro Mixamp Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #6 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by baconcow View Post

Thanks for the quick reply. I used the maximum USB slots to account for the possibility and I used a 250W LED fan since the front fan is 180mm and in case I added 3 fans in case I used the NH-D14 instead of the H80 (I understand the error this causes since it would account for 2 cooling systems at once, which I won't have). 550W seems very low since nVidia recommends a 650W for it.

 

NVIDIA's power supply recommendation is taking into account the possibility of customers purchasing generic PSUs.  A typical generic 650W power supply may only have a +12V capacity of about 500W which means that it should really be sold as a 550W power supply.

 

Anyway, I want to mention two things:

 

"High rpm SATA" drives are like Western Digital Velociraptors.  If you are only going to have 7200 RPM drives, then select Regular SATA.

 

Also, most SSDs are flash.  I don't know if the power draw is different, but it may be.

 

Anyway, I did the same calculation using two Regular SATA instead, and I also had two Flash SSDs instead of DRAM and I got 636W minimum and 686W recommended.  However, this is still using a System Load of 90% which is actually only realistic when Folding or BOINCing.  A more realistic figure would be around 70 to 80%.

 

70% comes up with 495W minimum, and 545W recommended

75% comes up with 530W minimum, and 580W recommended

80% comes up with 565W minimum, and 615W recommended

 

However, I'm not sure if 237W is a realistic figure for the 3930K overclocked to 4.6 GHz using 1.35V.  If it is, then so be it. 

 

All I'm really saying though is that less money can be spent.  :)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogon View Post

I'd say a 650 watt unit, at most 750.
These are the overclocks I'm running.
i7 2700k 1.381V @ 4.8
GTX 690 +135% / +135 core / +325 memory
You can look at my rig for the rest of the stuff.
Playing BF3 I pull over 500 watts, 3dMark11 pulls at most 520. If I remember correctly with prime95 custom blend with 90% of my memory and running OCScannerX at my native resolution of 2560x1440p with all the furry tests enabled and max usage allowed I was around 550. Not counting the ~90% +/- efficiency from my PSU and the fact my Belkin monitor could be off by a few %.

 

If the "at the wall" draw was actually 550W, and if the PSU were 85% efficient, then the system pulled 467W from the PSU.  If it were 90% efficient, then the system pulled about 495W from the PSU.

    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.7GHz (1.368V using +0.005 offset) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 580 (ASUS DirectCU II) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
60 GB Callisto Deluxe (C:) 64 GB G.SKILL Falcon (D:) Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Samsung 2253BW (1680 x 1050) Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair HX650 (major overkill, but it was cheap) CM 690 Microsoft Intellimouse Optical Basic, but premium round 
AudioOther
XtremeGamer (low-profile PCB) Altec Lansing VS4121 (2.1 speaker system) 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.7GHz (1.368V using +0.005 offset) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 580 (ASUS DirectCU II) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
60 GB Callisto Deluxe (C:) 64 GB G.SKILL Falcon (D:) Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Samsung 2253BW (1680 x 1050) Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair HX650 (major overkill, but it was cheap) CM 690 Microsoft Intellimouse Optical Basic, but premium round 
AudioOther
XtremeGamer (low-profile PCB) Altec Lansing VS4121 (2.1 speaker system) 
  hide details  
Reply
post #7 of 12
If I remember they based their conclusion off of a i7 965 and the 690, it needed 38A on the 12v rail.
post #8 of 12
Thread Starter 
This is all very interesting information. Since I am having the computer built at the store (since it is being shipped and I prefer the testing of hardware they do), I suppose an experienced builder would raise a red flag if it is not enough. Looking at the 750W PSU'sm the HX is only 109.99 and the AX 142.49. This is considerably less than the HX and AX versions of the 850W and I wouldn't have to add a lot of money to my order ($30) to upgrade to the AX750 (would cost me less to use the HX750W).
ARES
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3930k ASUS Rampage IV GENE nVidia 690 GTX Corsair Vengeance LP 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
SeaGate Barracuda 3TB Crucial M4 256GB LG CH12LS28 Blu-Ray Corsair H80 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
Windows 7 Professional x64 SteelSeries 6Gv2 Corsair AX850 Silverstone TJ08-E 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G700 SteelSeries 4HD Onkyo HT-S3300 Sennheiser PC360 
Other
Astro Mixamp Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
ARES
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3930k ASUS Rampage IV GENE nVidia 690 GTX Corsair Vengeance LP 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
SeaGate Barracuda 3TB Crucial M4 256GB LG CH12LS28 Blu-Ray Corsair H80 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
Windows 7 Professional x64 SteelSeries 6Gv2 Corsair AX850 Silverstone TJ08-E 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G700 SteelSeries 4HD Onkyo HT-S3300 Sennheiser PC360 
Other
Astro Mixamp Pro 
  hide details  
Reply
post #9 of 12
Either unit will be fine, the upside about the AX version is it only spins the fan when a certain amount of wattage is used, and its more energy efficient.
post #10 of 12
Because the SB-E is a power hog with a mild OC, you're looking at a 650w minimum power supply for a 3930k and a GTX 690.

An AX650 will do nicely for your build, but it's a tad expensive for a 650w unit imo. I got mine for $125 on sale, which isn't too bad.

And computer store staff usually know nothing about power supplies. I built a 3570k rig to go with gtx480 and the guy at the sales counter laughed when I bought a Silverstone 500w psu off of him. He said are you sure? I said yeah, then he laughed and said ok, but your going to have a $1000 paper weight soon.

LoL
Edited by MrTOOSHORT - 8/21/12 at 3:16am
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 3970x @4.8GHz  Asus Rampage IV Extreme  EVGA GTX TITAN @1.2GHz Corsair Dominator Platinum @2.4GHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
OCZ Vertex 4 256gb LG BluRay Burner EK Supreme HF/rx360/rx120/GT AP14/MCP655 EK-FC TITAN XXL Edition 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 64bit Samsung 275t Plus Logitech K360 Corsair AX650 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Obsidian 800d Performance MX Steelseries Aluminum Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 3970x @4.8GHz  Asus Rampage IV Extreme  EVGA GTX TITAN @1.2GHz Corsair Dominator Platinum @2.4GHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
OCZ Vertex 4 256gb LG BluRay Burner EK Supreme HF/rx360/rx120/GT AP14/MCP655 EK-FC TITAN XXL Edition 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 64bit Samsung 275t Plus Logitech K360 Corsair AX650 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Obsidian 800d Performance MX Steelseries Aluminum Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Power Supplies
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Power Supplies › 750W or 850W?