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[EG] Battlefield and Call of Duty: the great frames per second debate - Page 7

post #61 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostSniper08 View Post

1) Basketbal maybe a sport where everything is the same, but what about football, soccer, baseball? all of them may have the same field, but they dont have same field conditions all the time. Sometimes there is lots of wind, other times rain, or snow. The field it self gets destroyed by all the movement. Maps in bf3 are the same way, they all (and i repeat myself) start of the same, and change as the game progresses.
2) SC does not have random maps. You are right. but were not talkin about starcraft. NOR QUAKE. But if you want to use them for your argument then ok. You ever think that maybe they are played professionally becuase they have a lower amount of players? SC is played mainly 1v1 or 2v2 professionally. Thats easier to keep track off, and thats the only game to my knowledge that is truly a 'sport' as recognized by a whole nation (i.e korea). All the other games you mention are just tournaments, played by enthusiasts, not a nationally recognized sport.
3)you say you wouldnt pay for a game w/o dedicated servers? On console im pretty sure they arent, which really affects the game play im sure. Play professional on that? i dont think so.
4) how is your 'plateau' any different in COD than in BF3. The only good players in COD are those with the best weapons, which are the ones who reach the top.. Once you've gone through all your prestiges and have all the weapons than what? everyone will be just as good as everyone else just the same. Only difference in weapons in COD is clip size and power of weapon. At least in BF3 you have other attributes that differentiate weapons from one another. Then those players that you say that practice to learn the maps ins and outs, how is that not going to plateau? once everyone knows the entire map, which isnt that big and no where near as many places to hide, they are going to eventually plateau. you reach your limit to as the possibilities of different tactics, and soon becomes the same thing, which is run n gun. BF3 offeres various places to hide, create new tactics, work with your squad to actually accomplish your task, and it is still being delivered at that fast pace action.
5)I'll agree that most shots by RPG to a jet are quite lucky, thats almost impossible in real life as well. But a helicopter hovering above, a tank driving towards its target unaware of your presence? much more plausible. With enough practice and skill, you could make that happen more often. When i started sniping from top of rooftop, or tower, or any advantages point. I missed ALOT. Why cuz i had to adjust to bullet speed, how much bullet drop, and distance. Now, while im still not the best, majority of my shots are head shots and my percentages have gotten higher, and not by luck either. You dont have to do that in COD. Pretty much if your reticle is on top of your enemy, or if you let auto target do it for you, then you get the kill. Yea thats skill. You use an MP5 or a pistol to snipe someone in COD across that map, thats not skill thats just having every bullet fly in a straight line. You can do that too in BF3, but you have to adjust your aim.. Say you play darts and every time you throw your dart, it went in a straight line. Im pretty sure everyone would have bulls-eyes every time, but no, the shape of dark, the power behind it, air resistance and gravity all take play into it. Now gettin a bulls eye takes a level of skill that no just anyone could do.
and once again i will disagree with you in that once you are good at BF3 then you are as good as the rest. What do you think you are playin against robots?? Every time you play a different person you are playing against a whole new mind. A whole new set of skills and game play. Not everyone snipes and is good, not everyone flies and is good, not everyone uses the same weapon at all and no one is the same. That is the point of online multiplayer. COD may be similar in BF3 in that sense, but all other aspects of the game still make BF3 more of a challenge to play well.
1)Field conditions change for ALL players. If it's snowing for Arsenal you can bet that it's snowing for Manchester United on the same field. Debris in BF3 varies from person to person on different computers. That would be like one team playing in snow while the other team is playing in rain at the same time on the same field.
2) Yes, size does affect how well a game can be played professionally in eSports. It's a mighty difficult task to get 32 players together to play at the same time for one match at that level - but that's not the sole reason behind it not being played in any recognized eSports league. WCG, ESW, CEVO, ESEA, or even MLG do not use the game, despite all of them giving support to other FPS games, even Call of Duty and Halo titles.
3) I don't own any current gen consoles, nor do I plan to. I won't play an FPS game with a thumbstick, nor will I pay for a competitive FPS game without dedicated servers. I've stood by that since I opted for Quake II and building my own computer instead of buying an N64 and Goldeneye, and I'm very happy with my choice.
4) I don't think you understand the concept of a skill plateau. I'm not talking about weapon unlocks or perks, I'm talking about pure skill. Yes, there are weapons out there that clearly stand out above others for competitive use, but interestingly enough most of them are unlocked early (or indeed are starting weapons), but the baseline I'm talking about here is skill. Prestige level doesn't indicate skill. Weapon camo unlocks don't indicate skill. The fact that you think magazine size and weapon power are the only differentiators in Call of Duty games makes your ignorance shine through here. Sway, recoil, fire rate, recoil, visible recoil, TTK, etc. all hugely factor in to what makes a weapon the defacto choice for high level play. As for map knowledge? Any CS 1.6 pro will tell you that even to this day there are still things to learn and practice even on heavily used maps. These guys are striving for perfection, not just learning a few cute camping spots.
5) Auto target? If you're playing the console version of these games, I'd consider your opinion pretty much invalidated. And if you think that putting four or five bullets across a map on a target a few pixels wide doesn't take any skill even if you don't have to factor in bullet drop, I don't know what to tell you. Aiming at a target quickly and getting your shot off isn't easy when the target shoots back. Learning the simplistic (and vastly overdone) bullet drop mechanics in BF3 isn't all that difficult - not like you have to be a math major to pull off a perfect shot like in Tribes or anything. And your target is moving about twenty times slower. And so are you.
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post #62 of 91
The real question is would you rather play BF3 at 60fps or COD at 120fps? Or at least that is the question for me.
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post #63 of 91
Cod @ 120fps.
post #64 of 91
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Originally Posted by Despair View Post

BF3 is garbage, the maps have no balance. You got 1/3 of the team waiting in spawn for vehicles, and a ridiculous amount of snipers in the back of the map. Not to mention slow gameplay in reg conquest unless you vehicle whore.. Bad Company 2 was better in every way...BC2 had more dynamic and more focus on things that took skill, BF3 just mashes vehicles onto unbalanced, uneven maps. Also TDM in Battlefield is trash, they should've just stuck to Squad DM...don't really think it would matter though since pretty much all the maps in BF3 are bad.

All of this and they add too much realism. Except of course sniper scope glint which is the biggest single factor that killed this game for me. I mean besides that you shoot from your forehead so camping is promoted even more. Vehicles feel too hard to disable esp bradleys, lazer darts really made BC2 feel like vehicles were balanced. Sniper class feels like crap and I cant kill people with support for my life.

I played the game for a while but IRNV scopes, mortars, bradleys, getting constantly teamkilled by spastards, getting rezzed in line of fire so people can get points, and sniper scope glint killed the game for me. Also m203 grenades were a bit stupid in certain maps, but then again needed because people camp like crazy. No one drops ammo or medkits, and people steal your vehicles.
post #65 of 91
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Originally Posted by Despair View Post

BF3 is garbage, the maps have no balance. You got 1/3 of the team waiting in spawn for vehicles, and a ridiculous amount of snipers in the back of the map. Not to mention slow gameplay in reg conquest unless you vehicle whore.. Bad Company 2 was better in every way...BC2 had more dynamic and more focus on things that took skill, BF3 just mashes vehicles onto unbalanced, uneven maps. Also TDM in Battlefield is trash, they should've just stuck to Squad DM...don't really think it would matter though since pretty much all the maps in BF3 are bad.

The maps are fine..it's the players. BC2 was better, really? You did play Rush as an attacking team right with a good number as snipers?
People have some horrid memories.
Edited by chinesekiwi - 8/23/12 at 4:02am
post #66 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploppytheman View Post

All of this and they add too much realism. Except of course sniper scope glint which is the biggest single factor that killed this game for me. I mean besides that you shoot from your forehead so camping is promoted even more. Vehicles feel too hard to disable esp bradleys, lazer darts really made BC2 feel like vehicles were balanced.

'Balanced' as in the tanks were made of cheap plastic? Tanks are meant to to hard to disable as they well...TANKS. Also they're easy enough to take down if you know where the weak spots are or you know how to jihad jeep. To be honest, learn to play better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploppytheman View Post

Sniper class feels like crap and I cant kill people with support for my life.

So yeah, learn to play better and aim eh. Any game or sport isn't meant to be easy all the time.
Also it doesn't count as a death if you get res-ed.
Edited by chinesekiwi - 8/23/12 at 4:11am
post #67 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Cod @ 120fps.

BF3 @ 60FPS any day, but my 7950 can churn out more then 60 FPS. biggrin.gif
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post #68 of 91
He didn't specify which COD. ;o

I have a strong bias for the first two of the series. Amazing games that would likely be played (in large numbers) if they didn't endeavor passed the second release..

I never really cared for battlefield though. I always viewed it as a pub game that didn't really have a place in competitive esports (even if it was played for a handfull of seasons on a pro level).
post #69 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayvinAzn View Post


4) I don't think you understand the concept of a skill plateau. I'm not talking about weapon unlocks or perks, I'm talking about pure skill. Yes, there are weapons out there that clearly stand out above others for competitive use, but interestingly enough most of them are unlocked early (or indeed are starting weapons), but the baseline I'm talking about here is skill. Prestige level doesn't indicate skill. Weapon camo unlocks don't indicate skill. The fact that you think magazine size and weapon power are the only differentiators in Call of Duty games makes your ignorance shine through here. Sway, recoil, fire rate, recoil, visible recoil, TTK, etc. all hugely factor in to what makes a weapon the defacto choice for high level play. As for map knowledge? Any CS 1.6 pro will tell you that even to this day there are still things to learn and practice even on heavily used maps. These guys are striving for perfection, not just learning a few cute camping spots.
5) Auto target? If you're playing the console version of these games, I'd consider your opinion pretty much invalidated. And if you think that putting four or five bullets across a map on a target a few pixels wide doesn't take any skill even if you don't have to factor in bullet drop, I don't know what to tell you. Aiming at a target quickly and getting your shot off isn't easy when the target shoots back. Learning the simplistic (and vastly overdone) bullet drop mechanics in BF3 isn't all that difficult - not like you have to be a math major to pull off a perfect shot like in Tribes or anything. And your target is moving about twenty times slower. And so are you.

wow really? I used that as an example, the fact that YOU cant notice that shows your ignorance. Im not going to go down the entire list of everything that shows lack of skill. You throw in small examples as well, im not 'ignorant' enough to believe that those are the only reasons as to why you think the game has no skill. I just simple rebuttal some of the points you make. Akso all those other attritbues you added are implemented in BF3 as well, and are better as well.
people who play BF3 are not just learning cute little spots to camp. Thats the point of having different classes and everyone playing their part. you can play the game how you like. Everyone does something different with each class and play differently with each class. its not always about run n shoot. Everything you point out bout COD can be done and is done in BF3. And in both games you are going to have your careless players that just do it for fun and those who really take the time to learn the mechanics of the game and perfect the way of playing.
You really still stuck on the intangible objects in BF3? In sports yes weather affects all players, but by your claim, everyone is affected by those intangible objects just as well. if you really pay attention, any debris that is 'real' in the game is always the same, everyone will get to see it. The unimportant things may be there just for eye candy, and it may all depend on the settings you are using. ultra graphic settings will get to see it all, someone with your specs for a computer might not when playin on medium. Thats a sacrifice you have to make. You put everyone with 7990's and i7 to play on ultra, more people will be playin on even ground. That still does not affect my game play. Once again, you learn the map just the same way you would in COD. Except in COD once you've learned the entire map and game thats it. Since they are smaller and static you will eventually hit that wall of skill level. After that is perfecting the same low end skills that anyone can figure out and be good at. As oppose to bf3 to where, how you said before, has a lot of variables to consider, that really keeps you on your toes and thinking. Yes you have to change your strat all the time and there are a variety of ways to do it. Maybe no its not set like basketball, to where its the same every single time. There has to be a different way of approaching things because of those variables. And alright no, you dont have to be a math genius to adjust to effects such as bullet drop, that would be rediculous, but it does add a challenge to every shot you take.
its obvious that i wont be swaying you from thinking differently about which game is better. you feel very strongly on your side of this argument, so im done with this, its keeping me from working and this argument will just keep going on and on, ha. and just so everyone knows, i dont hate COD. Like ive said ive played pretty much ever single one that has come out and have thouroghly enjoyed the game. IMO BF3 is a harder game to adapt to with more to offer. Both games are far from perfect and they both rely on different tactics of gameplay. COD engine has been around a lot longer than the BF3 game engine, and doesnt really offer much compared to its predecessors. BF3 is a newer engine that does have some refining to do, but the game play is IMO better and does have more to offer, and room to grow. it was fun debating with you RayvinAzn.
post #70 of 91

Moral of the story - play it on the PC

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