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post #71 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by wARNING LabeL View Post

Why wasn't the F700 allowed in court as evidence?
I believe that's what FRAND patents are for and that's why all HDTVs can all be the same shape.
I don't think Apple's design is part of a FRAND patent and that's why Samsung got sued for it.
Anyways, it seems like my views aren't very popular here. I'll be on my way now.

Apple refuses to license its patents.
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post #72 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

Apple refuses to license its patents.

It will be their downfall. If they licensed their patents into FRAND patents things would go much smoother.
Edited by BeerPowered - 8/26/12 at 5:36pm
post #73 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by wARNING LabeL View Post

Why wasn't the F700 allowed in court as evidence?.

That ones on Samsung. They submitted the evidence too late. That's the official line anyways.
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post #74 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainChaos View Post

That ones on Samsung. They submitted the evidence too late. That's the official line anyways.

It was too late, BEFORE, the trial had begun.

Remember the first day the trial began?

I remember saying that Samsung was going to lose this case, simply because all evidence was being stacked against Samsung.

Any evidence that could help Samsung's case was denied, or key witnesses weren't allowed to testify.

Another key witness that wasn't allowed to testify.
http://origin-www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=conewsstory&tkr=SSU:GR&sid=aAPeFKyBkysg
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post #75 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerPowered View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foolsmasher View Post

Samsung is terrible. Copy most popular phone, use another company's OS, modify it to look even more like iOS. Real innovative right there.

Apple did just that. How can you fault another company for doing the samething.


The Palm OS existed long before iOS. Apple took the palm OS and modified it to fit their style and called it the iOS.

Without the Palm OS, iOS and Andorid wouldn't exist.
This was the best I could find for a video demonstration of Palm OS 6. It's not much of a video but like I said, best I could find. I'll agree that without it things may be a lot different than they are now, but not that Apple "took the Palm OS and modified it to fit their style". iOS is drastically different from Palm OS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainChaos View Post

I'll leave you with a post I made in another thread.
Quote:
Disregarding all the awesome processors, screen tech, and various components that Samsung make that are used in millions of non Samsung devices. The funny thing is if Apple releases a smaller iPad do you know who's trend they'll be following? I'll answer for you since you probably wont allow yourself to admit it. Samsung...

Calling Samsung out for not being innovative is one of the most foolish things you can say.
Actually they'll probably be following Amazon's trend or Google's trend, if anything. Samsung did have the first 7-inch tablet out, but the former two had it priced very competitively. Samsung's 7-inch tablet didn't sell so well IIRC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

You really need me to link you to the patent of the "rectangular screen with rounded corners"? Just a quick Google search for ya.
http://www.zdnet.com/apples-ipad-design-patent-been-there-done-that-images_p2-7000000404/

Surely, you've been following the lawsuits and are aware of the patent in question. I am sure we have discussed it before.

Apple wants a monopoloy over rectangular screens with rounded corners.

If Apple had its way, no one else could enter the tablet and smartphone market, they've gone as far as suggest alternatives to Samsung.


Honestly, it doesn't matter to me that Apple has never invented anything, or that they have copied or stolen ideas, or that they've bought technologies which they then told the world they invented, and boy did they patented it to stifle competition.


~snip~


The problem I have with Apple is that their whole foundation is based on copying and innovating existing ideas, yet, they had the audacity to abuse the broken patent system to patent a lot of the ideas they stole and copied. They have been suing a lot of Android manufacturers, most famously Samsung for "copying" them.

When your whole foundation is based on copying others' ideas, it's beyond hypocritical to sue others for copying you.

Perhaps Apple needs to go back to innovating, rather than litigating.

Perhaps they need to release more than 1 phone per year so they can better compete with other manufactureres who release several phones per year, and give their customers different choices.

Perhaps they need to move beyond a 3.5" screen ( which they are rumoured to do ), since that's where the market is headed.

We can debate all day long, about who came up with what first, the iPhone was a natural evolution of where the market was headed. Rectangular screen devices existed before the iPhone, and they will exist after the iPhone.

That's why I asked you, what has Apple EVER invented, and since the answer is NOTHING, they need to get off their high horse and quit suing people for the very thing they've always done.
The "rectangular screen with rounded corners" is part of a trade dress law suit, and not a patent. I'm aware of it, but I wanted you to give me the link so I know for certain what we're talking about. I suspected it was about trade dress.

But they have invented things. And they've innovated a lot. There's a big difference between "looking at others for inspiration" and more blatant copying like Samsung has done. I don't agree with all of Apple's law suits, but they do have a right to protect what they've made.

Trade dress exists to protect the products made by a company from being copied too closely. Again it's one thing to look to something for inspiration, but another to blatantly copy. I mean just look at one of these images from Samsung's re-evaluation report.


(Source: http://allthingsd.com/20120807/samsungs-2010-report-on-how-its-galaxy-would-be-better-if-it-were-more-like-the-iphone/)

There's like a hundred of those or more covering almost every aspect of the iPhone's UI, for both the OS and stock apps. Have a browse of the document yourself. (For the record, Apple's alternative design suggestions for Samsung are ridiculous, save maybe for one or two.)
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post #76 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

But they have invented things.

Sorry to zero in on just this one statement.

What 3 things have they "invented"?

There's a big difference between inventing, and innovating.

As for that doc, yes, that was the most damning evidence for sure, Samsung should've taken a queue from Apple and destroyed more evidence.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57488289-37/payback-samsung-says-apple-destroyed-evidence/

Apple should've been at least penalized as well, but as we have learned, this trial was meant to only go one way.
Edited by 2010rig - 8/26/12 at 5:53pm
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post #77 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

Apple refuses to license its patents.

That's not true.

Microsoft licensed Apple tablet patents, Samsung refused

Apple Offered to License its Patents to Samsung for $30 Per Smartphone, $40 Per Tablet

Anyways, this discussion is going no where.
post #78 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

This was the best I could find for a video demonstration of Palm OS 6. It's not much of a video but like I said, best I could find. I'll agree that without it things may be a lot different than they are now, but not that Apple "took the Palm OS and modified it to fit their style". iOS is drastically different from Palm OS.

You have no experience in using the Palm OS, so you can't make that judgment. I on the other hand have. The last Palm device I owned was a Palm Treo 650 back in 2005. The iOS is nothing more than a modified Palm OS with Apples flashy style and modern technology.
post #79 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerPowered View Post

All that document proves is how Samsung was improving on a design they already had. If you actually read the document you would see that.

As for losing, they haven't lost anything. Apple isn't going to get a dime. The case is going to be appealed all the way to the Supreme Court, before any verdict is finalized.
Have you actually thread through that document? It compares the two and then gives explicit instructions for the S1 to adopt the same or similar things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

If you can't grasp that all companies especially Apple look to others for inspiration, then nothing anyone here says will ever make a difference.

Did they look at the iPhone for inspiration? Yes.

When Apple created the iPhone Steve Jobs posed the question, what would Sony do?

They even made iPhone mockups with SONY's logo on it.

~snip~

Conveniently, the judge didn't allow this evidence to be entered into the trial.

Shin Nishibori refused to testify as well:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57482258-38/former-apple-designer-i-wont-testify-at-samsung-trial/

The judge also didn't allow the F700 to be entered into the trial.

Why did the judge refuse such key evidence to be entered into the trial?

We don't know if the outcome could have been different, but if the jury was aware that Apple TOO took inspiration from other companies, if they knew that Samsung TOO had a device with a rectangular screen with rounded corners, the trial could've had a different outcome.

The jury had pretty much made up their mind as noted in one of the interviews, they didn't pay attention to what they were instructed to do that they even fined Samsung on a device they didn't find infringing. doh.gif

When they found one Samsung device had bezels, and was found infringing, they just looked at all phones that had bezels and found them infringing.

If the f700 was allowed in the trial, they would have seen that Samsung ALREADY had a device with bezels.

Again looking at a product for inspiration and blatant copying are two entirely different things. Apple proved that they didn't copy Sony by showing a prototype back in 2005. A common theme in all your posts is about Apple took inspiration from others so it's okay for Samsung to do the same, and you're right, but what Samsung did is much more than that. It's blatant copying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post


Sorry to zero in on just this one statement.

What 3 things have they "invented"?

There's a big difference between inventing, and innovating.
I'm aware of the difference, and they've done both. I don't really know much about what they've invented, they've been a company for a long time. They invented the Mac, OS X, FireWire, etc., I'm sure there's plenty more but I have no interest in looking them up.
Quote:
An invention is a unique or novel device, method, composition or process. It may be an improvement upon a machine or product, or a new process for creating an object or a result. An invention that achieves a completely unique function or result may be a radical breakthrough. Such works are novel and not obvious to others skilled in the same field.
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post #80 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foolsmasher View Post

Not only is the evidence in plain sight, there's internal documents to boot. A jury has already ruled there was an infringement. I guess I'm done arguing with the brick walls, case closed.

Case isn't closed. Jury did a piss poor job.
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