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[Ars] Windows 8 privacy complaint misses the forest for the trees - Page 5

post #41 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeio View Post

Like a better user experience* and getting another leg up on malware?
*Smart screen replaces the dialog in Windows 7 and earlier that showed for every downloaded program that it came from the internet. Now it tries to be halfway intelligent about which programs it warns you about.

The implication is that I would like MS to do that for me. Which then leads to why do it at all AV has done it for us for years why now?

Wasn't there a little incident I read about here about some porn being deleted of sky drive? If it really happened that's being monitored is it such a far stretch to monitor what you install? Going further down the slippery slope "MS combats piracy" your torrent program just stopped working.

Apple is at least honest about it, if you leave gatekeeper set to default no unsigned code gets installed, you want an example of unsigned code Cinebench.

Currently everything is still OK sorta but this does not bode well for the future.
 
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post #42 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post

The implication is that I would like MS to do that for me. Which then leads to why do it at all AV has done it for us for years why now?

And the implication of what you are saying here asserts that all Windows users have anti-virus installed or plan to at any point.

This is obviously not the case. Windows 7 even had warnings that advised people to install anti-virus software. Many obviously ignored it, myself included.

Therefore, we come to the obvious situation where things that AV software does, is now a part of Windows so that the many people who do not have AV can have similar benefits while those who do have AV software can simply disable it and use their own.

Its really not the rocket science you'd like for it to be.
Quote:
Currently everything is still OK sorta but this does not bode well for the future.

Yes, Microsoft are absolutely horrible for including optional security to their operating system instead of relying on everyone to add third party versions of their own.

(let me see how easy it is to create a string of logical fallacies based on nothing at all)

Hey, did you hear they include a firewall too? I know, its down right dubious. Not to mention socialist. You probably wont even be able to turn it off in the next version of windows!! I wonder how long it will be optional for?

Also, why do we have to have ISPs? Howcome all our stuff has to go through their servers? Aren't we "relinquishing control" by letting them use IP protocols on us? How long until IP protocol is optional and we have to use one that lets them control our PC?

What if OCN is actually giving data to the government about people who type conspirational texts about them? They might not be, but as the article that Ars just debunked has said, they COULD! They might.

Isn't that enough reason to avoid OCN altogether? How do we know what they're actually doing? Why should we trust OCN? Do you know who runs it?

Sure we say facebook is data mining for products and the like under the guise of a community, but then what the heck is OCN?

Don't we talk about products more than most places on the internet? Isn't this a huge database? Look to your right. There are product reviews!

How can you trust OCN? As we agree, they may not be doing anything at all and probably aren't which is why the government haven't locked us both up yet.

BUT THEY COULD.....and that's what's really scary.
Edited by GrizzleBoy - 8/27/12 at 1:30pm
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post #43 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Browncoat View Post

I think you should read the article (or re'read it properly if you already have).
How is an opt-in screening a 'massive privacy invasion' ?
Stop spreading FUD from completely baseless conjecture.
Of course they have the capabilities to do so, but doing so would be the start of the nail in the coffin for Microsoft, no company is stupid enough to do that.
Opt-in today perhaps but what about windows 9? They always start out small on ANYTHING, for games it use to be "do you want to send in system specs to help etc etc" and now it does it without your consent on platforms, then EA brings out a "we can do anything" TOS with Origin. There are some very good political point outs but I can't say them on this forum but a clear pattern of starting small always happens.

So Windows 9 it might just be mandatory....also its not the first time a company has lied to us about keeping data or secretly monitoring....aka Google.
    
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post #44 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twist86 View Post

Opt-in today perhaps but what about windows 9? They always start out small on ANYTHING, for games it use to be "do you want to send in system specs to help etc etc" and now it does it without your consent on platforms, then EA brings out a "we can do anything" TOS with Origin. There are some very good political point outs but I can't say them on this forum but a clear pattern of starting small always happens.
So Windows 9 it might just be mandatory....also its not the first time a company has lied to us about keeping data or secretly monitoring....aka Google.

You're missing the point.

Windows 8 is not Windows 9.
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post #45 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Browncoat View Post

You're missing the point.
Windows 8 is not Windows 9.

You're missing the point.

See: Boiling Frog


Send Microsoft a message NOW, otherwise it will be too late by Windows 9.
post #46 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

And the implication of what you are saying here asserts that all Windows users have anti-virus installed or plan to at any point.
This is obviously not the case. Windows 7 even had warnings that advised people to install anti-virus software. Many obviously ignored it, myself included.
Therefore, we come to the obvious situation where things that AV software does, is now a part of Windows so that the many people who do not have AV can have similar benefits while those who do have AV software can simply disable it and use their own.
Its really not the rocket science you'd like for it to be.
Yes, Microsoft are absolutely horrible for including optional security to their operating system instead of relying on everyone to add third party versions of their own.
Hey, did you hear they include a firewall too? I know, its down right dubious. Not to mention socialist. You probably wont even be able to turn it off in the next version of windows!!

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, you'll install it I won't (or any other MS product) and we'll both move forward.
 
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post #47 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

You're missing the point.
See: Boiling Frog
Send Microsoft a message NOW, otherwise it will be too late by Windows 9.

Your entire argument is as follows:

Windows 8 is bad because they could make it mandatory in Windows 9.

It is so full of holes and baseless 'what ifs' and hypothetical it is silly.
Microsoft has the capabilities and reach to do loads and loads of hypothetical damage, but until there is evidence supporting such the conjecture is completely irrelevant.

If they do decide to make it mandatory on Windows 9 then you can complain about it, y'know, when it actually happens.

There is nothing forcing you to run Windows 9 if that happens.
If you do 100% need it for some program there is always a virtual machine with no access to the internet.
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post #48 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Browncoat View Post

You're missing the point.
Windows 8 is not Windows 9.
The point isn't missed on my end but you fail to see the real point here, its not about Windows 8 or 9 but what today will evolve into tomorrow. I care more about the MULTITUDE of privacy invasion this WILL become in the FUTURE. You become complacent and think "oh its no problem" while they data mine you, also who is to say hackers or Microsoft can't enable this anytime they want under a government order? Don't think its possible? I'm sure the patriot act seemed like a impossible idea as well at one point....now look at us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

You're missing the point.
See: Boiling Frog
Send Microsoft a message NOW, otherwise it will be too late by Windows 9.
Taken from Wikiepedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
The boiling frog story is a widespread anecdote describing a frog slowly being boiled alive. The premise is that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability of people to react to significant changes that occur gradually.[1] According to contemporary biologists the premise of the story is not literally true; a frog submerged and gradually heated will jump out.[2][3] However, some 19th-century experiments suggested that the underlying premise is true, provided the heating is sufficiently gradual.


Stop thinking that a company will do the right thing, if given a chance they would violate your rights to the highest level if it meant more profit. Start thinking and stop looking at the glass in front of you and start looking at the brick wall behind that glass.
Edited by Twist86 - 8/27/12 at 1:34pm
    
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post #49 of 88
It's not like MS loves you or has your best interest at heart. Steve Ballmer wants your money, might this be why the upgrade is cheap?
Edited by GermanyChris - 8/27/12 at 1:57pm
 
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post #50 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twist86 View Post

The point isn't missed on my end but you fail to see the real point here, its not about Windows 8 but what today will evolve into tomorrow. I care more about the MULTITUDE of privacy invasion this WILL become in the FUTURE. You become complacent and think "oh its no problem" while they data mine you, also who is to say hackers or Microsoft can't enable this anytime they want under a government order?
Taken from Wikiepedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
The boiling frog story is a widespread anecdote describing a frog slowly being boiled alive. The premise is that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability of people to react to significant changes that occur gradually.[1] According to contemporary biologists the premise of the story is not literally true; a frog submerged and gradually heated will jump out.[2][3] However, some 19th-century experiments suggested that the underlying premise is true, provided the heating is sufficiently gradual.
Stop thinking that a company will do the right thing, if given a chance they would violate your rights to the highest level if it meant more profit. Start thinking and stop looking at the glass in front of you and start looking at the brick wall behind that glass.

No, I completely see the point - it's just totally irrelevant.

If they decide to change and implement a mandatory filter in the future with another iteration of Windows that is a different topic - the topic of this thread is its impact on Windows 8 which is totally negligible.

Oh, an anecdote?
Which as a whole is based on a Slippery Slope argument which itself is a logical fallacy.

The rest of the post is, again, pure conjecture and assumptions.

I will use Windows as long as I don't have to share everything I do, in this case it is optional so there is no problem whatsoever.

Also, nowhere did I say that any company would do the 'right' thing - if anything that you suggest 'massive privacy invasions' were to happen, I can 100% guarantee that you would hear about it plus there are laws in many countries which prevent such things.

And if you are so worried about hackers or Microsoft being able to use it as a backdoor you are insane, this could be said for any closed-source software.
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