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[VC] NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 Will Utilize GK110 GPU - Page 52

post #511 of 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

If you can provide a credible source for that claim, I will agree it is an issue. But NV's press release stated that they will only lose access to the greenlight program for the non-compliant cards.

Greenlight itself already cripples if not entirely destroys any AIB's profit margin on cards with OV support, seeing how MSI pushed out Afterburner 2.2.4 with no Overvolt option for 680 Lightning and EVGA pulling EVbot from 680 Classified is clear evidence of that.

In addition
Quote:
and with our source alleging that Nvidia may even cut chip allocations for companies that talk publicly about the matter, that's no surprise.

Edited by sherlock - 10/21/12 at 7:44am
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post #512 of 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

Greenlight itself already cripples if not entirely destroys any AIB's profit margin on card's with OV support, seeing how MSI pushed out Afterburner 2.2.4 with no Overvolt option for 680 Lightning and EVGA pulling EVbot from 680 Classified is clear evidence of that.
In addition

Cant really argue with that last quote, read that article myself.
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post #513 of 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

Greenlight itself already cripples if not entirely destroys any AIB's profit margin on cards with OV support, seeing how MSI pushed out Afterburner 2.2.4 with no Overvolt option for 680 Lightning and EVGA pulling EVbot from 680 Classified is clear evidence of that.
Of course it destroys their profit margin, their profit margin only existed because they were subsidising reckless overvolting with NV's greenlight program.

I highly recommend you read this:
Quote:
"We love to see our chips run faster and we understand that our customers want to squeeze as much performance as possible out of their GPUs. However there is a physical limit to the amount of voltage that can be applied to a GPU before the silicon begins to degrade through electromigration. Essentially, excessive voltages on transistors can over time "evaporate" the metal in a key spot destroying or degrading the performance of the chip. Unfortunately, since the process happens over time it's not always immediately obvious when it's happening. Overvoltaging above our max spec does exactly this. It raises the operating voltage beyond our rated max and can erode the GPU silicon over time."

But what about Kepler's GPU Boost, doesn't this lead to premature wear on the GPU? No, it doesn't. NVIDIA also explained that GPU Boost only increases the voltage and clock speed applied to the GPU within the safe, recommended limits, thus maximising GPU performance while maintaining its longevity.

"In contrast, GPU Boost always keeps the voltage below our max spec, even as it is raising and lowering the voltage dynamically. That way you get great performance and a guaranteed lifetime.

So our policy is pretty simple:

1. We encourage users to go have fun with our GPUs. They are completely guaranteed and will perform great within the predefined limits.

2. We also recommend that our board partners don’t build in mechanisms that raise voltages beyond our max spec. We set it as high as possible within long term reliability limits."

So, ultimately, preventing overvolting allows NVIDIA enthusiasts to enjoy their product for its full lifetime rather than having it die suddenly, or show strange anomalies over time before it dies, both highly frustrating and unwanted situations for enthusiasts.

If board partners honestly think that going beyond NV's maximum specified limit is possible, whilst retaining an effective profit margin, they can. But the truth is, it isn't. It has nothing to do with heat or better board designs, jamming on more cooling is not going to help when the damage is being caused by electromigration and the chips are already pushed to their limit by GPU boost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

In addition
Quote:
and with our source alleging that Nvidia may even cut chip allocations for companies that talk publicly about the matter, that's no surprise.
An unnamed source posted, and not even directly quoted, on a single tech blog directly contradicting an NVidia spokesperson and their press release? Incredibly reliable.

And before you say it was posted on multiple tech blogs, IIRC it originated from bit-tech, and all other blogs have just drawn their articles on the issue from that one source.
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post #514 of 556
I'd just like to add, if you want to insult the 680 for being crap at stock volts, go ahead. But you can't blame NV for removing warranties from board partners that were making money at their expense.
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post #515 of 556
The real spirit of OCN comes out in these threads. smile.gif

I'm just going to cross my fingers and hope that there will be a GK110 derivative card for non the non professional market
post #516 of 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arni90 View Post

35-45% performance increase is unlikely for several reasons:
Tesla cards have always had a better GFLOPS/watt than Geforce card, if this remains for next generation, then the GK110-based Geforce card will consume close to 350 watts (not acceptable.)
That sounds acceptable; didn't the GTX 590 use something like that?
Quote:
I'd just like to add, if you want to insult the 680 for being crap at stock volts, go ahead. But you can't blame NV for removing warranties from board partners that were making money at their expense.
Yeah, because there's no other way to limit the max voltage that can be achieved while under warranty, like a stock BIOS. No company would ever be able to sell cards with no warranty from the manufacturer, unless the manufacturer had perfect QC; the manufacturer is making money off selling dead cards, otherwise.
Edited by Art Vanelay - 10/21/12 at 10:11am
post #517 of 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowyn View Post

They are also dies that are functional but too leaky for Tesla, those are perfect for Geforce line.
As it was said 1000000 times before, Tesla part always have less units enabled and closed way lower that Geforce parts, it was true for every single gen since CUDA/GPGPU introduction, so common sense should say that this will be the case here until proven otherwise by hard facts.
Let me state it more clearly: Tesla-cards have always had more GFLOPS/watt than Geforce cards.
If the GK110-based Geforce-card is supposed to beat the GTX 680 by 35%, based on the performance/watt of the K20, it will have to have a TDP in the 300-350W range, that is simply unacceptable and won't happen. Thus we won't get a 35% boost in performance from the GK110, it's simple math.

It doesn't matter if the Tesla parts have less functional units, the K20 is definitely limited by it's power budget at just 705MHz and 225W. How much will power have to increase for 20% higher clocks? 30%?
Edited by Arni90 - 10/21/12 at 10:18am
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post #518 of 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

Of course it destroys their profit margin, their profit margin only existed because they were subsidising reckless overvolting with NV's greenlight program.
I highly recommend you read this:
If board partners honestly think that going beyond NV's maximum specified limit is possible, whilst retaining an effective profit margin, they can. But the truth is, it isn't. It has nothing to do with heat or better board designs, jamming on more cooling is not going to help when the damage is being caused by electromigration and the chips are already pushed to their limit by GPU boost.
An unnamed source posted, and not even directly quoted, on a single tech blog directly contradicting an NVidia spokesperson and their press release? Incredibly reliable.
And before you say it was posted on multiple tech blogs, IIRC it originated from bit-tech, and all other blogs have just drawn their articles on the issue from that one source.

Have you not read the quote?
Quote:
A source inside one of Nvidia's largest graphics manufacturing partners, who spoke to us on the condition that they remain anonymous, explains: 'The fact is Nvidia is stopping ALL partners from allowing any form of hardware/software overvolting, or providing hardware mods beyond its very limited restrictions. They threaten to cut allocation [of GK100 parts] if hardware mods aren’t removed or avoided entirely.'
Quote:
and with our source alleging that Nvidia may even cut chip allocations for companies that talk publicly about the matter, that's no surprise.
If a "named source" spoke out, Nividia would outright cut-off their supply of Kepler chips, so ofc all you get is unnamed sources.

plus I never said GTX 680 was bad at stock volts(although 7950/7970/670 smashes it in price/performance), just that for a $500 Flagship card it had limited OC headroom due to voltage locks.
Edited by sherlock - 10/21/12 at 10:33am
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post #519 of 556
They still believe gk104 is really a midrange card lol..Oh well i didnt miss that much in this last couple months..
post #520 of 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

Have you not read the quote?
If a "named source" spoke out, Nividia would outright cut-off their supply of Kepler chips, so ofc all you get is unnamed sources.
plus I never said GTX 680 was bad at stock volts(although 7950/7970/670 smashes it in price/performance), just that for a $500 Flagship card it had limited OC headroom due to voltage locks.

My point is that absolutely nothing is known about the source of that quote. We don't know if it's middle-management, a factory worker or the CEO. There's no information to rule out bias from the source either. And there is nothing else to substantiate the claim, if the source had slipped in some other inside insight into NV's inner-workings, then maybe it would be a little more credible. But as it stands, it's entirely possible it's either fabricated, or based on office rumours that may be flying around one of NV's partners.

I will agree that it has limited OC headroom though, it looks like that's as a result of GPU boost and will continue so long as NV use the technology.
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