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[Official] uSFF/SFF Club - Page 258

post #2571 of 2832
I have to say that it is pretty hard designing a case to fit what you wanted under certain constraints ( having done two already). But looking over the hardforum post I have to say that overlooking the actual outer dimensions of the case is a big oversight, knowing full well the thickness of the material you would be using. I do like Project Matx, the couple mm added by the case thickness is next to nill in terms of height in my OP.
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post #2572 of 2832
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by subtec View Post

I do not own the case. Did you actually measure it yourself? Because those are exactly the same dimensions (converted to US/imperial and rounded) that Jeffinslaw gave in his thread. The thing is, you and he both give the height as 327.8mm, yet his own image he posted from his CAD file shows the height as 331mm, excluding the exterior walls:



That would put the real height at around 335mm, which galletabah's own measurements concur with.

Given the evidence, I am 99% sure that the real dimensions put it over 20L, and more likely closer to the 21.36L calculated from galletabah's measurements.
Those are his CAD drawings from his very first draft if I'm not mistaken (dated 2013). In any case, I made measurements after finishing all the programs I had to launch for our company and my measurements are a little bigger than advertised.

332.5 mm x 371 mm x 167 mm = 20.6 liters

Still within 20 liters I guess, but definitely not over 21 liters. I'm sure there will be cases smaller than mine and maybe bigger than mine considering that manufacturing tolerances are not that tight since it isn't a critical piece of machinery.

Here are some pics for reference:




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post #2573 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFSxperts View Post

Could you post pics of your case so I can add you to the club?

As for the dimensions, I just used the measurements posted by Jeffinslaw
http://www.overclock.net/t/1580191/project-matx-artisan-page-still-accepting-orders/140#post_24695866

If you're in a good mood, perhaps you can post pictures of the case with a tape measure next to it? thumbsupsmiley.png

I hope the pics I posted above are good enough! biggrin.gif
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post #2574 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

Those are his CAD drawings from his very first draft if I'm not mistaken (dated 2013).
He posted that three months ago. It'd be strange to be working off an out-of-date, three year old file, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

In any case, I made measurements after finishing all the programs I had to launch for our company and my measurements are a little bigger than advertised.

332.5 mm x 371 mm x 167 mm = 20.6 liters
And for the record, Jeffinslaw's given dimensions:
Quote:
327.8mm x 369.2mm x 165.1mm = 19.98L

Is there a reason you measured it without the side panels on? Do they not count for some reason? It's 2mm thick aluminum, IIRC, so that adds 4mm to the width if we include them, putting the volume at 21.1L according to your measurements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

Still within 20 liters I guess, but definitely not over 21 liters. I'm sure there will be cases smaller than mine and maybe bigger than mine considering that manufacturing tolerances are not that tight since it isn't a critical piece of machinery.
You're suggesting that the cases have the potential to be several millimeters out of spec (+/-5mm, apparently, in the case of depth height), which is pretty unacceptable, even for something that isn't a "critical piece of machinery." Millimeters matter for a PC case - particularly an SFF case. It's not the kind of accusation against a manufacturer (Sliger Designs, in this case) that you want to make lightly.

I'm not sure why you're so intent on defending Jeff's clearly fudged dimensions, honestly, except I guess to qualify as a rather arbitrarily-defined "SFF" case and be included in this "club." I don't honestly care that much, either, and if the OP wants to exercise his discretion to include it, I don't have a problem with that. But let's be honest, please, and not try to mislead people about the fundamental physical properties of an object.
Edited by subtec - 6/14/16 at 11:25pm
post #2575 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by subtec View Post

He posted that three months ago. It'd be strange to be working off an out-of-date, three year old file, no?

He did say that he sent over his original cad drawings to the manufacturer and the ones he has left are from his original drawings. You can look for the discussion on Project MATX.
Quote:
Originally Posted by subtec View Post

And for the record, Jeffinslaw's given dimensions:
Is there a reason you measured it without the side panels on? Do they not count for some reason? It's 2mm thick aluminum, IIRC, so that adds 4mm to the width if we include them, putting the volume at 21.1L according to your measurements.

The thickest place of the case was the corners so I figured I'd measure there. As for the side panels they do not sit completely on top of the case as they have to slide in since the sides are recessed. I can take measurements again, and take a picture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by subtec View Post

You're suggesting that the cases have the potential to be several millimeters out of spec (+/-5mm, apparently, in the case of depth), which is pretty unacceptable, even for something that isn't a "critical piece of machinery." Millimeters matter for a PC case - particularly an SFF case. It's not the kind of accusation against a manufacturer (Sliger Designs, in this case) that you want to make lightly).

Why don't you try and measure the different cases out there in the wild, take my FT03 and my brothers FT03 (silverstone), we made measurements and they are not 100% the same (They're off by a mm or 2 here and there). It's not an accusation, every manufacturing process has tolerances allowed in the manufacturing process and the standard is +/- 5% (I'm sure there are tighter tolerances for other industries). Maybe you don't know that there are tolerances in manufacturing and it has something to do with costs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by subtec View Post

I'm not sure why you're so intent on defending Jeff's clearly fudged dimensions, honestly, except I guess to qualify as a rather arbitrarily-defined "SFF" case and be included in this "club." I don't honestly care that much, either, and if the OP wants to exercise his discretion to include it, I don't have a problem with that. But let's be honest, please, and not try to mislead people about the fundamental physical properties of an object.

Maybe I should ask you why you're so intent on being obtuse? How about getting off your high horse? If you don't care so much then why are you so keen on picking on the case? Hey if the OP wants to remove the case so be it. It's still a great case! Where am I misleading people when i gave measurements of my case?

In any case, it's pointless talking to you and a waste of my energy, I'll just send in requests by the OP and let him decide what he wants to do! thumb.gif
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post #2576 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

He did say that he sent over his original cad drawings to the manufacturer and the ones he has left are from his original drawings.
So he never updated his own CAD files beyond the original 3-year old ones? Or he lost or deleted the newer files? I don't get what you're saying. In any case, he presented the images he posted as representative of the current dimensions, and has never claimed that they were old or incorrect, so I don't know where you're coming up with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

The thickest place of the case was the corners so I figured I'd measure there. As for the side panels they do not sit completely on top of the case as they have to slide in since the sides are recessed.
No idea what you're saying. The side panels clearly sit on the outer flanges of the chassis from all the images of the case I've seen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

Maybe I should ask you why you're so intent on being obtuse? How about getting off your high horse? If you don't care so much then why are you so keen on picking on the case?
Well, you did start this by claiming that I was "spewing false info." You can't say that and not expect me to back up my claim. Which I have, as we've established. Your own measurements back up my claim: I said the case is larger than 20L, which it is, and which you've confirmed. How about not being so eager to throw baseless insults?
post #2577 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by subtec View Post

So he never updated his own CAD files beyond the original 3-year old ones? Or he lost or deleted the newer files? I don't get what you're saying. In any case, he presented the images he posted as representative of the current dimensions, and has never claimed that they were old or incorrect, so I don't know where you're coming up with that.
No idea what you're saying. The side panels clearly sit on the outer flanges of the chassis from all the images of the case I've seen.
Well, you did start this by claiming that I was "spewing false info." You can't say that and not expect me to back up my claim. Which I have, as we've established. Your own measurements back up my claim: I said the case is larger than 20L, which it is, and which you've confirmed. How about not being so eager to throw baseless insults?

I will re-measure the case with the doors "on" to update my case dimensions,

To be clear, the reason I said your being obtuse is because you do not seem to understand the topic about manufacturing tolerances (all cases having lightly different dimensions). I should have been more clear about that instead of putting together multiple questions and statements at one go. Also don't get why you still need to get on a high horse to make a point.

I digress, you are right that the case is a little larger than 20 liters externally but I'm sure the other cases that say they are 20 liters also exceed that after painting specially powder coating (standard thickness is 1-3 mm or 30-80 microns,) such as this case since most measurements are made when the case is drawn without painting taken into account.
Edited by mark_thaddeus - 6/14/16 at 9:49pm
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post #2578 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

To be clear, the reason I said your being obtuse is because you do not seem to understand the topic about manufacturing tolerances (all cases having lightly different dimensions).
I have no problem comprehending manufacturing tolerances, and if it were only 1-2mm out I might understand. But +/- 5mm? By your own measurements, it's several millimeters larger in every dimension. You expect me to believe that's because of "tolerances?" That's bull**** and you know it. If that were true, the case couldn't even be assembled. Consider the side panels: they screw directly into the chassis flanges at all four edges, right? If the tolerances on the chassis were out by 5mm in height or depth, the screw holes would be miles off and you would never be able to attach them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

I digress, you are right that the case is a little larger than 20 liters externally but I'm sure the other cases that say they are 20 liters also exceed that after painting specially powder coating (standard thickness is 1-3 mm or 30-80 microns,) such as this case since most measurements are made when the case is drawn without painting taken into account.
30 microns is 0.03mm, not 3mm.

You're really grasping at straws here, honestly.
post #2579 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by subtec View Post

I have no problem comprehending manufacturing tolerances, and if it were only 1-2mm out I might understand. But +/- 5mm? By your own measurements, it's several millimeters larger in every dimension. You expect me to believe that's because of "tolerances?" That's bull**** and you know it. If that were true, the case couldn't even be assembled. Consider the side panels: they screw directly into the chassis flanges at all four edges, right? If the tolerances on the chassis were out by 5mm in height or depth, the screw holes would be miles off and you would never be able to attach them.
30 microns is 0.03mm, not 3mm.

You're really grasping at straws here, honestly.

So what's wrong with my measurements, I posted pics to prove it right? The likely culrpit is because the measurements you're relying on is with powder coating added to that (correction on thickness below). Case in point, when my new outer shell arrived (defective bars in front) I had to dis-assemble and re-assemble the case and I had issues fitting the replacement part because they were not completely aligned. I had to sand down certain parts for it to fit and force in the screw so it would fit. So obviously the tolerances are not 100% perfect and so it shouldn't since there is always that error.

Sorry combined both measurements, here's the actual:

1. 2 to 3 mm standard for optimum mechanicals.

2. AAMA specifies coating film thickness not less than 30 microns, and British standard 40 microns above, powder coat supplier specifies 60-80 microns.

3. 60-80m microns is a general target or minimum that is used.

That would mean if they used the general target of 0 6 mm (6 microns) to 0.8 mm (8 microns) that would add at least 1.2 mm to 1.6 mm to all dimensions. Now if they used thicker powder coating that would add even more to the external dimensions.

0.6 microns to 0.8 microns is only 0.06 mm to 0.08 mm. Now if they used the 2-3 mm standard then there would be a difference but if they used the 60 to 80 microns very small nearly negligible.
Edited by mark_thaddeus - 6/14/16 at 10:47pm
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post #2580 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

That would mean if they used the general target of 0.6 mm (6 microns) that would add at least 1.2 mm to all dimensions.
You're still off by a factor of ten. 120 microns is 0.12mm. That's insignificant for what we're discussing.
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