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[Official] uSFF/SFF Club - Page 259

post #2581 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by subtec View Post

You're still off by a factor of ten. 120 microns is 0.12mm. That's insignificant for what we're discussing.

Oops yup you're correct on that, but the whole point about the tolerances is the example i gave when I couldn't fit the part replacement properly without me sanding down and even having to remove the powder coat on a certain part. I sanded down a very thick portion for the bare metal to show, I'd say I sanded down at least 1mm and I had to force it in to fit the new part to the old parts I had.

I could even show the picture of where I sanded down the part (rear panel where the PCI meets with the bottom part of the shell). with the paint. I couldn't align it to fit into the guide hole and the 2 screws, so I sanded that down to where you could see metal and they were finally able to fit in.
Edited by mark_thaddeus - 6/14/16 at 10:44pm
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post #2582 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

Oops yup you're correct on that, but the whole point about the tolerances is the example i gave when I couldn't fit the part replacement properly without me sanding down and even having to remove the powder coat on a certain part. I sanded down a very thick portion for the bare metal to show, I'd say I sanded down at least 1mm and I had to force it in to fit the new part to the old parts I had.
Okay, but you're missing the point I'm making: there is a discrepancy of five millimeters between the depth (edit: height) Jeffinslaw gives for the case, and the depth as you measured it. If it were that much off because of sloppy tolerances, the screw holes for the side panels would never line up. Sanding isn't going to help with that. So either: 1.) you've measured it wrong, or 2.) the dimensions as Jeffinslaw give them are wrong. I'll let you decide.
Edited by subtec - 6/14/16 at 11:24pm
post #2583 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by subtec View Post

Okay, but you're missing the point I'm making: there is a discrepancy of five millimeters between the depth Jeffinslaw gives for the case, and the depth as you measured it. If it were that much off because of sloppy tolerances, the screw holes for the side panels would never line up. Sanding isn't going to help with that. So either: 1.) you've measured it wrong, or 2.) the dimensions as Jeffinslaw give them are wrong. I'll let you decide.

How did I measure the length and depth wrong when the pictures show it right? I agree that I need to re-measure the thickness with the doors on and that's it. Maybe the tape measure is inaccurate, I know its not caliper accurate, so there's definitely error there. As for the screws not fitting why wouldn't it fit?The holes are on a different axis as where the depth is. Depth is Z Axis and the holes for the side panels are on the X Axis. The Z axis is affected by up to 4 mm if they used 1 to 2 mm thick powder coat (2 mm for the front and back of the case with respect to depth) externally only. The screw holes on the other hand would not be affected by the Z axis at all.
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post #2584 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

How did I measure the length and depth wrong when the pictures show it right? I agree that I need to re-measure the thickness with the doors on and that's it.
I'm not saying you measured wrong. I've never said that. My original claim is that the case is larger than Jeffinslaw claims it is, and your measurements support my claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

As for the screws not fitting why wouldn't it fit?The holes are on a different axis as where the depth is. Depth is Z Axis and the holes for the side panels are on the X Axis.
I count eight screws on the side panel, two on each of the four chassis flanges at either side. Obviously, if the chassis tolerances are out by more than a millimeter or two in height or depth, those screw holes aren't going to line up with the ones on the side panel. If the depth is out, the screws at the front and back edges will be too far apart to line up with the ones in the side panel, and the same with height.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

The Z axis is affected by up to 4 mm if they used 1 to 2 mm thick powder coat (2 mm for the front and back of the case with respect to depth) externally only. The screw holes on the other hand would not be affected by the Z axis at all.
Where are you getting this "1 to 2 mm thick powder coat" from? I thought we just went over this. It's in the 60-80 micron range, right? That's 0.06 - 0.08mm, which is totally irrelevant to the scale we're talking about. edit: I looked it up, and standard thickness for "functional" powder coat is in the range of 10 mils, which is 0.001", or ~0.25mm. That's a little more, but still basically irrelevant.
Edited by subtec - 6/14/16 at 11:29pm
post #2585 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by subtec View Post

I'm not saying you measured wrong. I've never said that. My original claim is that the case is larger than Jeffinslaw claims it is, and your measurements support my claim.
I count eight screws on the side panel, two on each of the four chassis flanges at either side. Obviously, if the chassis tolerances are out by more than a millimeter or two in height or depth, those screw holes aren't going to line up with the ones on the side panel. If the depth is out, the screws at the front and back edges will be too far apart to line up with the ones in the side panel, and the same with height.
Where are you getting this "1 to 2 mm thick powder coat" from? I thought we just went over this. It's in the 60-80 micron range, right? That's 0.06 - 0.08mm, which is totally irrelevant to the scale we're talking about.

Seriously, one of of is being obtuse now, and it's not me.

I just said "IF" they use, which I believe they did because I just sanded down a very thick portion of my case so it would fit when I re-assembled it. I had to sand it down longer (It took me 1-2 minutes to do it with 400 grit sandpaper) than I normally sand down my other builds with typical paint.

You don't get it, the screw holes will still be the same before it was painted and after it was painted since it's dimensions are based from the frame within and not the outside dimensions which would be most affected "IF" the powder coat was 1 to 2 mm thick (which I believe is). The paint feels thinner inside than it is outside because sanding the inside part of the case was easier and faster versus the outside.

I'm getting tired trying to explain and we've derailed this thread enough...

So let's get back on topic! What SFF case do you have or are you working on?
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post #2586 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

I just said "IF" they use, which I believe they did because I just sanded down a very thick portion of my case so it would fit when I re-assembled it. I had to sand it down longer (It took me 1-2 minutes to do it with 400 grit sandpaper) than I normally sand down my other builds with typical paint.

You don't get it, the screw holes will still be the same before it was painted and after it was painted since it's dimensions are based from the frame within and not the outside dimensions which would be most affected "IF" the powder coat was 1 to 2 mm thick (which I believe is). The paint feels thinner inside than it is outside because sanding the inside part of the case was easier and faster versus the outside.
I think we're talking past eachother.

Forget the powder coating. We both agree that it's irrelevant.

Look at this image. Imagine if the frame of the case - the internal chassis - were 5mm taller than it's supposed to be, due to being out of tolerance. What happens? The top flange will be higher up, and the screw holes along the top flange will no longer line up with the ones in the side panel, right? This is what I've been saying.
post #2587 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by subtec View Post

I think we're talking past eachother.

Forget the powder coating. We both agree that it's irrelevant.

Look at this image. Imagine if the frame of the case - the internal chassis - were 5mm taller than it's supposed to be, due to being out of tolerance. What happens? The top flange will be higher up, and the screw holes along the top flange will no longer line up with the ones in the side panel, right? This is what I've been saying.

I understand what you're trying to say I was just going about it from the point of the paint changing the overall external dimensions. Without paint there is still the possibility that the dimension change could happen at the outer edges only while keeping the internal dimensions the same. How, when the case is folded, it's made from 1 pice ALU and it is folded to form the shell. Now the changes could be 0.5 mm here and there but not 5mm difference.
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post #2588 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

I understand what you're trying to say I was just going about it from the point of the paint changing the overall external dimensions. Without paint there is still the possibility that the dimension change could happen at the outer edges only while keeping the internal dimensions the same. How, when the case is folded, it's made from 1 pice ALU and it is folded to form the shell. Now the changes could be 0.5 mm here and there but not 5mm difference.
So you agree then that the measurements of the actual case, as you've taken them, don't match Jeffinslaw's stated dimensions for the case, and that poor tolerances could not possibly account for the discrepancy?

So what then does account for the discrepancy? Without any other plausible explanation, the only conclusion I can draw is that Jeffinslaw's stated dimensions are in fact wrong and the case is larger than he claims. Would you agree with that?
post #2589 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by subtec View Post

So you agree then that the measurements of the actual case, as you've taken them, don't match Jeffinslaw's stated dimensions for the case, and that poor tolerances could not possibly account for the discrepancy?

So what then does account for the discrepancy? Without any other plausible explanation, the only conclusion I can draw is that Jeffinslaw's stated dimensions are in fact wrong and the case is larger than he claims. Would you agree with that?

Give it up, your basing everything on a drawing made in 2013. Even if he posted it 3 months ago it doesn't negate the fact that it wasn't the designs he sent in to the manufacturer.

Let's just move on since I've lost taste to discuss this any further. biggrin.gif
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post #2590 of 2832
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

Give it up, your basing everything on a drawing made in 2013. Even if he posted it 3 months ago it doesn't negate the fact that it wasn't the designs he sent in to the manufacturer.
No... I'm basing it on your own measurements:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

332.5 mm x 371 mm x 167 mm = 20.6 liters
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Still within 20 liters I guess, but definitely not over 21 liters. I'm sure there will be cases smaller than mine and maybe bigger than mine considering that manufacturing tolerances are not that tight since it isn't a critical piece of machinery.

Here are some pics for reference:





Compared to Jeffinslaw's claimed dimensions:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffinslaw View Post

I've posted the dimensions several times between my build log and my artisan thread lol, once again they are:

Exact dimensions are: Height: 32.78cm (327.8mm), length: 36.92cm (369.2mm), width: 16.51cm (165.1mm). In inches, that is 12.91in x 14.54in x 6.5in (H x L x W).

-Jeffinslaw

How do you explain the difference? It's too much (+5mm) to be the result of being out of tolerance or powder coating, as we've established already.

The fact is, Jeff claims the case is smaller than it is in reality - and even markets it as such ("under 20 liters"). That is factually wrong, and your own measurements prove it.


Look, I've made the case as clearly as I can at this point. If you can't understand it, I don't know what to tell you.
Edited by subtec - 6/15/16 at 7:24am
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