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[Official] uSFF/SFF Club - Page 260

post #2591 of 2831
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

Give it up, your basing everything on a drawing made in 2013. Even if he posted it 3 months ago it doesn't negate the fact that it wasn't the designs he sent in to the manufacturer.

Let's just move on since I've lost taste to discuss this any further. biggrin.gif

That is not true. The drawing that was posted by @subtec was posted in [H] and Jeff specifically said that it was the most current drawing from the same model that he gave to the manufacturers. He only posted those to disprove Necere who found out that the components that are claimed to fit in the Project mATX can't fit in the volume that is advertised:



Jeff advertises 70mm of space for a top radiator and five slots. That is both correct, but that already puts the height to 329.905mm, not including panels and clearance for the GPU. The advertised height for the case is 327.8mm. Manufacturing tolerances for sheet metal bend-to-bend dimensions is usually 0.25mm. It is absolutely clear that Jeff is not giving out the correct dimensions of the case, there is no way around it.

This is certainly better than the dimensions being correct and the advertised parts not fitting, but it is still false advertising, and even after this was pointed out to him, he didn't change it. I understand this is being done to stay below the magical 20L mark, but it's a very shady move to make. He could've just said it was a mistake, but after a lot of arguing, it has to be assumed that this false advertising is a willingly done to put his product in a better light. I don't have to tell you that that's illegal and competitors could sue him for it.
post #2592 of 2831
Quote:
Originally Posted by subtec View Post

No... I'm basing it on your own measurements:
Compared to Jeffinslaw's claimed dimensions:
How do you explain the difference? It's too much (+5mm) to be the result of being out of tolerance or powder coating, as we've established already.

The fact is, Jeff claims the case is smaller than it is in reality - and even markets it as such ("under 20 liters"). That is factually wrong, and your own measurements prove it.


Look, I've made the case as clearly as I can at this point. If you can't understand it, I don't know what to tell you.

I already told you that the case is bigger than 20 liters right (A few posts ago - or am I so tired that I'm missing things?)? I just said my case wasn't 21.1 liters as you said. I don't care where the difference lies. If the error is with Jeff then it is.
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post #2593 of 2831
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

I already told you that the case is bigger than 20 liters right
Yes you did, when you measured it. But then you proceeded to make excuses for why it was larger - tolerances and powder coating - which I then had to refute. And then at the end rather than just agree, you brought up the CAD image again for some unknown reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

I just said my case wasn't 21.1 liters as you said. I don't care where the difference lies. If the error is with Jeff then it is.
Measure it with the panels on, then we can say what the actual volume is.

And yes, the "error" is with Jeff, but for some reason you've been extremely persistent about defending him.
post #2594 of 2831
Quote:
Originally Posted by iFreilicht View Post

That is not true. The drawing that was posted by @subtec was posted in [H] and Jeff specifically said that it was the most current drawing from the same model that he gave to the manufacturers. He only posted those to disprove Necere who found out that the components that are claimed to fit in the Project mATX can't fit in the volume that is advertised:



Jeff advertises 70mm of space for a top radiator and five slots. That is both correct, but that already puts the height to 329.905mm, not including panels and clearance for the GPU. The advertised height for the case is 327.8mm. Manufacturing tolerances for sheet metal bend-to-bend dimensions is usually 0.25mm. It is absolutely clear that Jeff is not giving out the correct dimensions of the case, there is no way around it.

This is certainly better than the dimensions being correct and the advertised parts not fitting, but it is still false advertising, and even after this was pointed out to him, he didn't change it. I understand this is being done to stay below the magical 20L mark, but it's a very shady move to make. He could've just said it was a mistake, but after a lot of arguing, it has to be assumed that this false advertising is a willingly done to put his product in a better light. I don't have to tell you that that's illegal and competitors could sue him for it.

Well it's interesting that he said that, in the Project MATX thread (or was it his sponsored thread?) when they were asking him about drawings I remember him saying that he no longer has the drawings he sent to the manufacturer and the ones he has are from the original renders prior to revisions made. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I could be remembering from old conversations/PMs. I could be the one in error there.

Shouldn't the buyers sue him since they are the ones affected for false advertising? Which competitors would sue him for making a custom case (I ask because I wouldn't know if a false advertising claim by a case maker would work since it doesn't affect them directly but the buyer - I could be wrong but I'm asking a legit question here)?

I agree then that it is wrong to say it's 20 liters when the product doesn't match up with the dimensions he gave.
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post #2595 of 2831
Quote:
Originally Posted by subtec View Post

Yes you did, when you measured it. But then you proceeded to make excuses for why it was larger - tolerances and powder coating - which I then had to refute. And then at the end rather than just agree, you brought up the CAD image again for some unknown reason.
Measure it with the panels on, then we can say what the actual volume is.

And yes, the "error" is with Jeff, but for some reason you've been extremely persistent about defending him.

I never said, stop saying Jeffinslaw is wrong at all (If it is implied I never meant to), I'm just saying my case isn't 21.1 liters (which I will re-measure again including panels). The reason I brought up the CAD image is because you base the measurements there and I base my measurements on my actual case - if that makes any sense at all. To try and clarify, the reason I brought that up is because my understanding of the drawing you raise (which I thought was not the most current) and is based on a discussion from memory (either on project MATX thread or sponsored thread or his artisan thread - which is wrong considering what was raise by IFreilicht - man that name is hard to spell) over at the buyers thread about the most recent drawings not being available so we took him at his word.
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post #2596 of 2831
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

Well it's interesting that he said that, in the Project MATX thread (or was it his sponsored thread?) when they were asking him about drawings I remember him saying that he no longer has the drawings he sent to the manufacturer and the ones he has are from the original renders prior to revisions made. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I could be remembering from old conversations/PMs. I could be the one in error there.

That certainly is interesting. I didn't follow the artisan thread too closely.
Quote:
Shouldn't the buyers sue him since they are the ones affected for false advertising? Which competitors would sue him for making a custom case (I ask because I wouldn't know if a false advertising claim by a case maker would work since it doesn't affect them directly but the buyer - I could be wrong but I'm asking a legit question here)?

Well, they could as well, but competitors that sell cases in the same field could sue on the basis of the false advertising giving him a competitive advantage. For example, (and this really only an example, nobdoy ever said something like this will happen, I use it because it lends itself well as an example), Kimera Industries have an mATX case that is advertised to fit multiple GPUs and multiple radiators and be SFF by the <20L rule. In theory, they could sue Jeff for the money they lost because their kickstarter wasn't successful.

Of course, they'd have to bring forward enough evidence that people were buying Project mATX and were thus driven away from buying a Cerberus on the basis of the former being 20L, but as Jeff only sold 25 cases, that would not be a convincing argument.

I don't think there should be any lawsuits in this situation, it's far too trivial for such a drastic measure.
Quote:
I agree then that it is wrong to say it's 20 liters when the product doesn't match up with the dimensions he gave.

Good. Personally, I'd like this to be fixed but I don't really want to message the mods and accuse Jeff like that, it just seems like the wrong thing to do. Oh well, it's not like any harm was done, really.
post #2597 of 2831
So guys, I love my NCase. But it's not "ricey" enough for me, I think. rolleyes.gif

I'm also considering jumping up from ITX to mATX. Simple because ITX X99 is quite... Limited. One board, limited CPU cooler compatbility with Narrow ILM.

So I'm shopping around for cases, just to see what my options are. Does anyone know of a case that can meet the following criteria?

  • Fits at least one 2.5" and one 3.5" drive
  • Has support for 2x 240mm radiators (Or rather, 480mm of radiator space)
  • Has either a place to mount a DDC pump and reservoir, or 5.25" bays for pump/res combinations
  • Has a window
  • Preferably pretty good/decent construction
  • White or Red LED for power
  • As compact as possible for these components.

I dabbled with the idea of the Corsair 350D for a bit. As at first, it seems like it would fit everything. But, to fit a top 240mm radiator I lose one of the 5.25" bays I believe. And to fit the front 240mm radiator, I'd lose the HDD's and SSD mounting location. I could maybe use the rear 120mm fan location as a mount for a pump/reservoir. I wanted to use one of those 5.25" res/pump combos, but, I'd need that location to mount my 3.5" and 2.5" SSD.
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post #2598 of 2831
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_thaddeus View Post

I agree that I need to re-measure the thickness with the doors on and that's it.
So are you going to re-measure it with the panels on, or not?
post #2599 of 2831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazexa View Post

So guys, I love my NCase. But it's not "ricey" enough for me, I think. rolleyes.gif

I'm also considering jumping up from ITX to mATX. Simple because ITX X99 is quite... Limited. One board, limited CPU cooler compatbility with Narrow ILM.

So I'm shopping around for cases, just to see what my options are. Does anyone know of a case that can meet the following criteria?

  • Fits at least one 2.5" and one 3.5" drive
  • Has support for 2x 240mm radiators (Or rather, 480mm of radiator space)
  • Has either a place to mount a DDC pump and reservoir, or 5.25" bays for pump/res combinations
  • Has a window
  • Preferably pretty good/decent construction
  • White or Red LED for power
  • As compact as possible for these components.

I dabbled with the idea of the Corsair 350D for a bit. As at first, it seems like it would fit everything. But, to fit a top 240mm radiator I lose one of the 5.25" bays I believe. And to fit the front 240mm radiator, I'd lose the HDD's and SSD mounting location. I could maybe use the rear 120mm fan location as a mount for a pump/reservoir. I wanted to use one of those 5.25" res/pump combos, but, I'd need that location to mount my 3.5" and 2.5" SSD.

Have you thought about Phanteks Evolv mATX? Not the most compact, but not huge either.
230 mm x 450 mm x 400 mm (W x H x D)

Lot's of watercooling support, dual radiators, res and pump mounts. Plenty of drive mounts and also has a 5.25 bay in back, so you still have the function without it showing on the front. Solid aluminum construction.
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post #2600 of 2831
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfarmer View Post

Have you thought about Phanteks Evolv mATX? Not the most compact, but not huge either.
230 mm x 450 mm x 400 mm (W x H x D)

Lot's of watercooling support, dual radiators, res and pump mounts. Plenty of drive mounts and also has a 5.25 bay in back, so you still have the function without it showing on the front. Solid aluminum construction.
I haven't looked into it much. But if they made a Evolv mATX TG, I'd buy it in a heart beat.
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