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I7 3930k stock voltage - Page 3

post #21 of 55
Thread Starter 
Is it so hard to understand for you Mr. Pie and Mr. Alatar that simple explanation of the logic would not oblige anyone. Instead of this we have now situation that peoples just applying settings without knowing whats really going on.
If still it is not clear to you i will give to you simple example: (taken from P9X79 User's Manual (English))
_______________________________________________________
CPU VCORE Voltage [Offset Mode]
[Manual Mode] Allows you to set a fixed CPU VCORE voltage.
[Offset Mode] Allows you to set the CPU VCORE Offset voltage.
CPU VCORE Manual Voltage [Auto]
This item appears only when you set the CPU VCORE Voltage item to [Manual Mode] and allows you to set a fixed CPU voltage. The values range from 0.800V to 1.700V with a 0.005V interval.
______________________________________________________

So what was stopping ASUS to explain at list what is difference and way they offered two modes for setting VCore???Should i remind you how much posts was around and how much peoples was questioning about??? I think it is still active.
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post #22 of 55
All overclocking guides are going to come with disclaimers because not all chips can use the same settings, simple as that. They don't want to be held liable for someone that doesn't know what they are doing.

It's not like overclocking is new and those that are buying enthusiast chips are likely going to understand the basics and understand the potential risks involved.

Although overclocking has gotten a lot easier over the years, it's still not a perfect science due to the variation in hardware and configurations. No company is going to necessarily endorse overclocking, they are just going to allow it. Altar have covered pretty much everything that needs to be said.
 
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post #23 of 55
Its not Asus' job to explain to you how to use the Vcore setting. Overclocking is for advanced users, this is why we come to baords like oc.net to discuss our findings and experiences and from that you can work out what Vcore is and how to adjust it properly.

Intel dont endorse overclocking, they are saying you can do it if you like but we wont help you, this is normal for many years, and all sockets not just 2011.

Mobo manufacturers help you to overclock by allowing you to adjust a multitude of settings to get the best performance but again they are not going to hold your hand, overclocking is for enthusiasts who are pushing the limits and are willing to risk their components.

About the stock voltage, well the stock voltage is what the CPU Vcore is during load conditions with Bios defaults. The VID range is specified by Intel and a CPU must comply for it to be classed as a certain CPU (called binning process, it depends on the silicon quality out the fab).

Lastly Intel Turbo Boost is not overclocking, Intel allow the CPU Speed and Vcore to be boosted under certain conditions where the TDP is not exceeded by its rated spec under the particular task being run. This is totally safe, as said before its an addition to speedstep in a certain way. Turbo Boost is totally safe and is not the same as overclocking.
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post #24 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasjeet View Post

Its not Asus' job to explain to you how to use the Vcore setting. Overclocking is for advanced users, this is why we come to baords like oc.net to discuss our findings and experiences and from that you can work out what Vcore is and how to adjust it properly.
Intel dont endorse overclocking, they are saying you can do it if you like but we wont help you, this is normal for many years, and all sockets not just 2011.
Mobo manufacturers help you to overclock by allowing you to adjust a multitude of settings to get the best performance but again they are not going to hold your hand, overclocking is for enthusiasts who are pushing the limits and are willing to risk their components.
About the stock voltage, well the stock voltage is what the CPU Vcore is during load conditions with Bios defaults. The VID range is specified by Intel and a CPU must comply for it to be classed as a certain CPU (called binning process, it depends on the silicon quality out the fab).
Lastly Intel Turbo Boost is not overclocking, Intel allow the CPU Speed and Vcore to be boosted under certain conditions where the TDP is not exceeded by its rated spec under the particular task being run. This is totally safe, as said before its an addition to speedstep in a certain way. Turbo Boost is totally safe and is not the same as overclocking.
Again -> taken from ASUS manual :
SPECIFICATIONS AND INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS MANUAL ARE FURNISHED FOR INFORMATIONAL USE ONLY, AND ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AT ANY TIME WITHOUT NOTICE, AND SHOULD NOT BE CONSTRUED AS A COMMITMENT BY ASUS

So really you have to read again what you wrote!
- "Overclocking is for advanced users" -> settings for VCore and multiplier are not in advanced section of bios!
Quote:
this is why we come to baords like oc.net to discuss our findings and experiences and from that you can work out what Vcore is and how to adjust it properly.
No it is because there is no proper valid information's -> it is simple as that white is white! After this disclaimer which i found in manual I really can't understand what stops this company to print out simple manual about how to use all those sweet functions in BIOS
Quote:
overclocking is for enthusiasts
Not any more -> If Processor nameplate say that processor clock is 3.2 GHz and when you switch on brand new computer you will find out that hi is running at 3.8 GHz - what is it ??? OVERCLOCK you can name it how you like it but fact is that that processor running OVER a CLOCK.
Quote:
Turbo Boost is totally safe
no is not -> I mean nothing will be burned but is it safe for data on your comp??? I found 2 or 3 posts here that people complains about "stock" temperatures and they buy computer at retail store.
Quote:
Intel don't endorse overclocking
Come on - get serious !!! Every review on serious sites begins with "we overclocked this processor with great success " . You think it is coincidence ???
What ewer - it is time for one nice coffee. It is an good subject to discus until folding goes and don't forget that you are an customer and you have a right for information's about., at least information how to manage things.
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post #25 of 55
Thread Starter 
biggrin.gif I just read this : "Its not Asus' job to explain to you how to use the Vcore setting." This was making my day - THANKS' thumb.gif
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post #26 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by kope View Post

With new X79 chip set and LGA 2011 I think there is no such thing like "stock". In new generation of Intel products is implemented power and thermal logic so voltage and clock are directly dependent on the quality of the entire computer / rig - as well as the area where the computer is located.

This is false.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kope View Post

Stock stand's for "name plate" or official data but for the 39xx you will not find such thing. There is data for VID (voltage identification) and VID goes from 0.600 to 1.350V.

That's the VID range. Each CPU is assigned a stock VID somewhere within that range. This is the CPU's VID when no C-states are active. It's a fixed number, it can vary from chip to chip, and it is not dependent on anything else except for the CPU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kope View Post


VID is the same for every chip! For the same conditions (load, clock, ambient temperature etc) every chip will give the same VID

This is blatantly incorrect.

It's perfectly possible to get two CPU of the same model, stepping, and even batch that have different electrical characteristics, that are set to different nominal VIDs by Intel, that will show very different voltages when used in the same system, during identical environmental conditions.
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post #27 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by deafboy View Post

All overclocking guides are going to come with disclaimers because not all chips can use the same settings, simple as that. They don't want to be held liable for someone that doesn't know what they are doing.
It's not like overclocking is new and those that are buying enthusiast chips are likely going to understand the basics and understand the potential risks involved.
Although overclocking has gotten a lot easier over the years, it's still not a perfect science due to the variation in hardware and configurations. No company is going to necessarily endorse overclocking, they are just going to allow it. Altar have covered pretty much everything that needs to be said.
I totally agree with you and there is not much debate about this.
What i'm trying to say is that some kind of textbooks with guidelines must to be out and with revision of Intel or AMD. Every second post here is "I wont to build rig but processor have to be overclocked". More over it is not important which processor - it is important that is overclocked. With all respect to all overclocker's here but this site should not be a place for our children to collect a basic knowledge without any control what is what and where to put something. Those links (linked to Intel site) which someone put here are links to datasheets for engineers and designers. I'm talking about text book which will contain simple guidelines about what is what and how this "new" platform working. Which voltages and way and most important relations between all those factors. I don't think that for an Intel engineer it will take more than one day to wrote something like that. Also there is no way that someone can use this book against Intel.
But from other side looks like most people here like to push red button and wait what will happened.
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post #28 of 55
If any company posted anything of the sort they would likely get sued by some idiot that couldn't figure things out...

There are too many variables to account for to make a broad generalization on how to achieve any specific clock.

As far as Turbo...consider that the "clock" and everything else as the underclock. Overclocking (by my definition anyways) is a manipulation to make the processor run faster than it was intended and/or marketed. If a "turbo" clock is marketed and intended to run at that speed, it is not an overclock. Turbo is for marketing.
 
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post #29 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by deafboy View Post

If any company posted anything of the sort they would likely get sued by some idiot that couldn't figure things out...
There are too many variables to account for to make a broad generalization on how to achieve any specific clock.

As far as Turbo...consider that the "clock" and everything else as the underclock. Overclocking (by my definition anyways) is a manipulation to make the processor run faster than it was intended and/or marketed. If a "turbo" clock is marketed and intended to run at that speed, it is not an overclock. Turbo is for marketing.

My points exactly.

Turbo is already pre-determined based on what type of load, temperature and the other operating variables. You cannot go any higher than what is already pre-determined/set by Intel.
post #30 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
It's perfectly possible to get two CPU of the same model, stepping, and even batch that have different electrical characteristics, that are set to different nominal VIDs by Intel, that will show very different voltages when used in the same system, during identical environmental conditions.
I don't think so. It is an overclocker's view of things. (it is not me - i's bad processor). There is a standard and Intel have to respect this. There is difference between two chips but it is not that much big that one work on 1.3V and second 1.4V. In range 1.2 GHz up to 3.8GHz all processors will work with same VID (actually in datasheets linked above you will find VID table ) That what you just wrote looks to me like there in Intel they do not care about quality and there is no final control. I repeat again - do not be confused with maximum clock which an chip can reach! Specifically I do not know how they tested processors but VID is Intel standard which states that on given conditions this is voltage which should be supplied to processor for task to be completed.It is not that much simple but you can say on this way (simple).
Quote:
This is false.
Excellent! We are discussing here, so Your discussion with most arguments knocked me off my feet. Which part is not clear to you -> the part in which i'm saying that if you have bud computer processor will throttling ??
Quote:
it is not dependent on anything else except for the CPU.
Exactly! CPU collects all information's (load, temperature etc) and according those information's hi gives to VRM VID.
Quote:
That's the VID range.......
It is already explained earlier that I did not understand proper meaning of this word "stock"
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Corsair Force 3 Noktua NH D14 Windows 8 ASUS VE278Q 
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SeaSonic X750 Gold 750W  Cooler Master HAF 922 
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I7 3930k ASUS P9X79 MSI N670GTX-PM2D2GD5/OC MSI N670GTX-PM2D2GD5/OC 
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