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post #21 of 199
What about a Canon S100? It's technically a P&S camera, but larger sensor and better quality than most. It's marketed to pros as a portable alternative to DSLRs and also enthusiasts. The cost is only about $300-350 and it's very tiny and pocketable. You can zoom from 24-120mm (5x) and it has a large f/2.0 aperture at the wide end for low light indoors. A P&S camera like that will also give you more depth of field in your macro shots of electronics (more will be in focus at the same time). It has many of the same settings and modes as DSLRs including aperture/shutter priority and manual. It performs excellent in low light (for its class and price) and ISO up to 6400.

The Sony RX100 is probably the best P&S out right now but it's twice the price of the S100 and it doesn't have twice the performance. For that price, you could look into a mirrorless camera with interchangeable lenses like the Canon EOS M and Sony NEX series.

For the OP's needs, I'd suggest the Canon S100.
    
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post #22 of 199
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaxian View Post

What about a Canon S100? It's technically a P&S camera, but larger sensor and better quality than most. It's marketed to pros as a portable alternative to DSLRs and also enthusiasts. The cost is only about $300-350 and it's very tiny and pocketable. You can zoom from 24-120mm (5x) and it has a large f/2.0 aperture at the wide end for low light indoors. A P&S camera like that will also give you more depth of field in your macro shots of electronics (more will be in focus at the same time). It has many of the same settings and modes as DSLRs including aperture/shutter priority and manual. It performs excellent in low light (for its class and price) and ISO up to 6400.

The Sony RX100 is probably the best P&S out right now but it's twice the price of the S100 and it doesn't have twice the performance. For that price, you could look into a mirrorless camera with interchangeable lenses like the Canon EOS M and Sony NEX series.

For the OP's needs, I'd suggest the Canon S100.
I'd rather have a MILC/small DSLR. I'd rather have experience with better cameras. My current point and shoot was a waste of £100, my iPhone 4 takes better pictures (and yes, that IS saying something)

Thanks for the insight, lets me have a look at a wide range of cameras, that will be useful if I ever need to recommend a P+S to someone who wants good photos for £200.

EDIT: Just reread the post, the fact that it has DSLR settings isn't anything new to me, my parents actually have the SX200 IX afaik. Good point and shoot to be honest with you. WILL shoot bad pictures at anything above 1K ISO though.
Edited by 3930K - 9/9/12 at 10:20am
post #23 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaxian View Post

The Sony RX100 is probably the best P&S out right now but it's twice the price of the S100 and it doesn't have twice the performance.

How, exactly, do you quantify "twice the performance"? rolleyes.gif

Anyone with money to spend and half a brain would pick the RX100 over any Canon compact 10 times out of 10.
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post #24 of 199
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sub50hz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by klaxian View Post

The Sony RX100 is probably the best P&S out right now but it's twice the price of the S100 and it doesn't have twice the performance.

How, exactly, do you quantify "twice the performance"? rolleyes.gif

Anyone with money to spend and half a brain would pick the RX100 over any Canon compact 10 times out of 10.
I would agree.

Off topic: What's the deal with Carl Zeiss lenses on P+S's?
post #25 of 199
I don't blame you wink.gif Keep in mind that all P&S cameras aren't the same. The S100 is quite a step up from the $100-200 models. Many predict that the inexpensive P&S cameras will not be made anymore in a few years because you are correct that phone cameras usually satisfy that need.

In your case, you're going to want to look at the mirrorless options then. A DSLR won't be poketable. The Canon EOS M is pretty small and convenient, but it is centered around the touch screen as others have said. Still, it's only slightly bigger than the S100 but it has the same APS-C sensor as Canon's entry DSLR T4i/650D. It supports interchangeable lenses and there is an adapter for EOS EF lenses as well. As others have said, you're buying into the "system".

Other than that, look at Sony's NEX line (3, 5, 7). Fuji does have a good line too, but they are not to my taste. Cheers.
    
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post #26 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

I would agree.
Off topic: What's the deal with Carl Zeiss lenses on P+S's?

Just like with SLRs, only a handful of lenses bearing the CZ name are actually made by Carl Zeiss - ofc the millions of handycams and digicams made by sony and having that logo on are not, just like the panasonic P&S do not actually have Leica glass.

Carl Zeiss has been working with Sony though, and provides input and design guidelines - many of the "prosumer" P&C digital cameras had amazing glass for their class. RX100 seems to be one of them.
post #27 of 199
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaxian View Post

I don't blame you wink.gif Keep in mind that all P&S cameras aren't the same. The S100 is quite a step up from the $100-200 models. Many predict that the inexpensive P&S cameras will not be made anymore in a few years because you are correct that phone cameras usually satisfy that need.

In your case, you're going to want to look at the mirrorless options then. A DSLR won't be poketable. The Canon EOS M is pretty small and convenient, but it is centered around the touch screen as others have said. Still, it's only slightly bigger than the S100 but it has the same APS-C sensor as Canon's entry DSLR T4i/650D. It supports interchangeable lenses and there is an adapter for EOS EF lenses as well. As others have said, you're buying into the "system".

Other than that, look at Sony's NEX line (3, 5, 7). Fuji does have a good line too, but they are not to my taste. Cheers.
The NEX 7 looks like something all the people in this thread think I should have, but it is more than 1K. So hopefully the price will either go down, or I get the EOS M, which only seems let down by the touchscreen controls.
post #28 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sub50hz View Post

How, exactly, do you quantify "twice the performance"? rolleyes.gif
Anyone with money to spend and half a brain would pick the RX100 over any Canon compact 10 times out of 10.

Yes, the RX100 is the best compact out right now. We know that. However, its price is approaching mirrorless territory and for that money, you could get something with a much larger sensor, interchangeable lenses, etc. I feel like it's not a good value for the money despite being an excellent camera.

"Twice the performance"?
  1. Image resolution of the RX100 is 20MP vs. 12MP on the canon, but that is only useful for printing larger or cropping tighter. The pixel density is the same.
  2. The RX100 sensor is larger but not enough to create a shallow DoF. Seems like they just wanted to bump their MP numbers to attract uneducated buyers who think more MP is the only factor to consider when buying a camera. The Canon flagship 1Dx only has 18MP and the Nikon D4 16MP. They must be worse than the RX100 rolleyes.gif
  3. With the same pixel density, low light / high ISO performance is only a little better than the S100. The RX100 does support two stops higher ISO but it's very aggressive with noise reduction and smoothing plus I don't find myself often needing ISOs in the 25600 range.
  4. I don't like Sony's use of proprietary technologies and UIs that don't play well with others. I prefer open formats and those easy to use. This is a generalization about Sony and my personal opinion only. They do make some cool things though.
  5. The zoom range of the RX100 is 28-100mm while the S100 is 24-120mm. I prefer the wider zoom range but Sony had to compromise due to the increased lens size requirements for their larger sensor.
  6. The Sony's UI for playing back images and videos is clumsy and requires you to remember which format you recorded in. I prefer Canon's UI and conventions over Sony's. I have tested many cameras from both brands. Again, this is personal preference and I wouldn't say the Sonys are bad products.
  7. The Canon has a built-in ND filter when needed, especially helpful for video in bright sunlight or long exposures (ie. waterfalls).
  8. The Canon S100 is 20% smaller and lighter.
Again, the RX100 is the better camera from a technical point of view. Whether or not it's worth twice the price is up to the OP. I'd recommend a mirrorless camera for that budget.

sub50hz, why are you so combative and insulting to anyone with a different opinion in every thread? Isn't one purpose of OCN to help each other and have a community for discussion? You make it seem like your opinion is the only possible valid one and everyone else is an idiot of they don't agree. You are entitled to your own opinion, but your posts are creating an environment where other members won't want to help for fear of your reprisal and that hurts the community.
    
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post #29 of 199
i dont see where there is literally twice the performance in what you listed.

your points 1 and 2 contradict each other.

MP is not important yet your first thing as to why that camera is better is image resolution.

sub50hz is not being insulting. he is honestly questioning your somewhat flawed posts
    
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post #30 of 199
First, my point is the the RX100 is not worth the price especially when mirrorless options are in the same range. I never said that the S100 had twice the performance as the RX100 and I said two times that the RX100 is the better camera. sub50hz questioned how I quantified that the RX100 DID NOT have twice the performance as the S100. I was providing examples where the RX100 is not twice as capable. I was not providing cases where the S100 is the better camera. Please re-read the thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sub50hz View Post

Anyone with money to spend and half a brain would pick the RX100 over any Canon compact 10 times out of 10.
Second, this statement is suggesting that I don't have "half a brain" since I don't think the RX100 is worth the extra money over the S100. How is that not insulting?

This will be my last post on the matter. I was just trying to offer an opinion backed up by facts to help the OP. It's ultimately his decision what he will buy and I'd respect whatever choice he made.
    
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