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[FT] Intel Shows Haswell, the Next 22nm Chip To Offer 2X Graphics - Page 11

post #101 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxox View Post

I sound like a boss... jk
In any event, since when overclocking is related and connected to global warming? And can you provide substanial evidence for its existence? Global warming is a theory and let's leave it at that.
If people around here cared about electricity and watt consumption of their PCs, they wouldn't have overclocked anything; instead underclock and undervolt. What we see here is a complete opposite of that. Members overclock the guts out of their CPUs/GPUs and don't give a squad about power consumption. Okay... Maybe a little. tongue.gif
What makes you think overclockers are wasteful? Why is overclocking perceived as wasteful?

In almost all cases, power consumption per workload is reduced by overclocking. I myself, and many other people chose an AMD card because of power consumption and heat reductions. (before Kepler)

Why is high-performance not allowed to be efficient? Keyword is efficient: performance per watt. Sky is the limit with performance as long as it's efficient.
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post #102 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hukkel View Post

All I read is a lot of blabla. So now showing FPS is not important anymore? You know, like every review by any reviewer about graphics always does?
From what I read the FPS go up when using Virtu in combination with Ivy Bridge. It almost did not do that with Sandy Bridge, now Ivy Bridge is doing it quite a bit lifting FPS by around 7 or 8 at full HD. Haswell is going to have an iGPU twice as strong. So therefore I conclude Haswell will lift FPS even higher. If you wish to prove that it doesn't work that way then by al means conduct an experiment that shows up the real FPS that are being sent to your screen with and without virtu. And please also teach it to all the reviewers around the world because you seem to understand something all of them do not.
The reason Virtu "works better" with Ivy Bridge is because Ivy Bridge is a slightly more powerful CPU.

Take a look at this:
UHWdTkZ.png

This is a rough illustration of the pipeline a game does, with and without Virtu enabled.

The regular way is simple:
-> A game wants a frame rendered
-> the driver translates directX/OpenGL-commands to GPU comands and reports back to the game that the frame has been rendered successfully
-> the GPU renders the frame
-> the frame is sent to the monitor.

The "Virtu"-way is a bit more complex though:
-> a game wants a frame rendered.
-> Virtu checks if the frame sent to it from the game will be displayed on the monitor:
  • If it won't be displayed on the monitor, Virtu reports to the game that the frame has been rendered successfully.
  • If it will be displayed on the monitor, Virtu sends the frame to the driver.
-> the driver translates directX/OpenGL-commands to GPU comands and reports back to the game that the frame has been rendered successfully
-> the GPU renders the frame
-> the frame is sent to the iGPU for buffering, this is the only part the iGPU will do using Virtu.
-> the frame is sent to the monitor synced vertically to prevent tearing.

The bolded part is what's important: even if the frame was not rendered, the game thinks it was rendered and generates a new frame.
FRAPS and similar tools works by monitoring how many frames generated by the game for a set time interval (usually about 1 seconds,) Virtu obsoletes these metrics completely and that's what makes "benchmarks" using Virtu completely useless.

Virtu does not improve the performance of a GPU by including the iGPU in the rendering process, the iGPU only does buffering to eleiminate screen tearing. I'm not sure where the misconception that Virtu increases the performance of the GPU by including the iGPU originated, but it is most certainly wrong.
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post #103 of 138
Lets put a few things into perspective here;

- Sandy Bridge, significant step up from from Core2
- Ivy Bridge, never meant to be substantially faster than SB, just power efficiency improvements, PCI-E 3.0 and a significantly better IGP. A "completed" SB if you will.
- Haswell, the technology meeting full maturity. Faster IGP, a little more power efficient than Ivy.

Every piece of technology sees its maturity before something new. No doubt Haswell will be the last revision on a now aging architecture before something completely new hits the drawing board. The only reason to buy Haswell will be if you don't like the heat IB generates or generated. By now I would think the leakage issues eary IB chips had has been resolved due to natural maturing of the 32nm process IB is manufactured with.
post #104 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketxxx View Post

Lets put a few things into perspective here;
- Sandy Bridge, significant step up from from Core2
- Ivy Bridge, never meant to be substantially faster than SB, just power efficiency improvements, PCI-E 3.0 and a significantly better IGP. A "completed" SB if you will.
- Haswell, the technology meeting full maturity. Faster IGP, a little more power efficient than Ivy.
Every piece of technology sees its maturity before something new. No doubt Haswell will be the last revision on a now aging architecture before something completely new hits the drawing board. The only reason to buy Haswell will be if you don't like the heat IB generates or generated. By now I would think the leakage issues eary IB chips had has been resolved due to natural maturing of the 32nm process IB is manufactured with.

IB is 22nm
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post #105 of 138
Seem that my X79 purchase will last me a good while... Glad i picked that one biggrin.gif
post #106 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Welcome to being a modern enthusiast, you take things at face value and never, ever read more into it to work out that while IB clocks a little lower than SB (Unless you actually know how to overclock instead of derp multi derp voltage derp done) it has higher IPC and uses less power while doing so, why do you think everyone hates on BD despite it being as fast as PhII when both are OCed? Seriously, I had someone say "BD would have to hit 4.8Ghz to match a 4.1-4.2Ghz Phenom II" as though those are difficult speeds to reach..My $139 FX-4170 reached those out of the box on a cooler from 2007 with a multi-bump and a voltage bump.

That made me chuckle a little. tongue.gif

On a serious note though, I've been doing this for a long time and I know exactly what you mean.
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post #107 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killermod1 View Post

Reading this whole thread got me to thinking "Are people more interested in overclocking or saving precious energy so that we can have a world to overclock in"?

Our world country is going to **** and nobody seems to care anymore... mad.gif

..Because of "green" people tongue.gif
This Haswell thing looks promising biggrin.gif I can hardly wait for ddr4 drool.gif
Personally..I'm more interested in overclocking sonic.gif
Like overclocking is bad for the planet or something kookoo.gif
Driving a Prius is 50,000,000X worse for the planet than overclocking.
Edited by Schmuckley - 9/14/12 at 8:01am
 
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post #108 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.M. View Post

What makes you think overclockers are wasteful? Why is overclocking perceived as wasteful?
In almost all cases, power consumption per workload is reduced by overclocking. I myself, and many other people chose an AMD card because of power consumption and heat reductions. (before Kepler)
Why is high-performance not allowed to be efficient? Keyword is efficient: performance per watt. Sky is the limit with performance as long as it's efficient.

Mate - you should consider the possibility that you response to my post is completely opposite to that of my intentions. I never claimed "overclockers are wasteful" I only wanted to point out the inevitable; members here overclock their gear to the roof. For love of humanity, we have members who overclock monitors. This is OCN and increase in power consumption due to overclocking is not a concern around here unless it's out of control. At least, that's what I've been observing for a long time.

As for the increase in performance per watt due to overclock, I can't comment on it because it is beyond the scope of my expertise.
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post #109 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxox View Post

Mate - you should consider the possibility that you response to my post is completely opposite to that of my intentions. I never claimed "overclockers are wasteful" I only wanted to point out the inevitable; members here overclock their gear to the roof. For love of humanity, we have members who overclock monitors. This is OCN and increase in power consumption due to overclocking is not a concern around here unless it's out of control. At least, that's what I've been observing for a long time.
As for the increase in performance per watt due to overclock, I can't comment on it because it is beyond the scope of my expertise.

Overclocking to the hilt from keyboard to monitor adds a few extra hundred watts maximum, This coupled with efficiency increases at every new hardware release says all us overclockers are getting greener thumb.gif
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post #110 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxox View Post

Mate - you should consider the possibility that you response to my post is completely opposite to that of my intentions. I never claimed "overclockers are wasteful" I only wanted to point out the inevitable; members here overclock their gear to the roof. For love of humanity, we have members who overclock monitors. This is OCN and increase in power consumption due to overclocking is not a concern around here unless it's out of control. At least, that's what I've been observing for a long time.
As for the increase in performance per watt due to overclock, I can't comment on it because it is beyond the scope of my expertise.


what do you mean by "out of control" ? so there is a possibility that if i oc my fx 8120 it will go out of control and pull power like some manhattan project??huh?hail hydra thumb.gif and along with my monitor ,keyboard,mouse i also oc my Air conditioner and my hair dryer .(the ozone layer on top of my house has vanished,true story,but i dont worry,some exposure to ultraviolet juices me)
Edited by kriss super boy - 9/14/12 at 8:48am
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