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post #871 of 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocturin View Post

I'd prefer it that way, actually. I like my preferences. I don't like others choosing for me more than it happens biggrin.gif
(dual sided comment is dual sided)
lachen.gifdevil.gif
?

The comment is basically saying that, your personal preference will always be wrong, in the presence of a fanboy.
post #872 of 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubanresourceful View Post

?
The comment is basically saying that, your personal preference will always be wrong, in the presence of a fanboy.

Well so far my preferences are more in niche markets than anything else, so yes. thumb.gif

Presence of fan's make no difference.
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post #873 of 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by AznDud333 View Post

im going to steal apple's argument here
but they're both rectangles! the homebutton is both circular, the form factor is similar and the music icon looks the same! apple copied samsung !11!
taste your own meds apple.
If that was Apple's case they would have lost a long time ago. The Samsung and the iPod nano look nothing alike.
Quote:
quit posting photoshopped comparisons, galaxy s was 0.5inches bigger and had a narrower formfactor
I just Googled for a Galaxy S vs iPhone image, I know nothing of it being photoshopped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

Nice shopping. I'll cook a REAL comparison of the S and the iPhone when I get home. I'll also do one for the MP3 and the Samsung prototype. Seriously, if you care about metal borders, why don't you care about rounded eyes inside straight corners, rectangle within a rectangle?
I didn't photoshop anything, I got it off Google. "Rounded eyes inside straight corners"? What?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post


It isn't about being an Android fanboy.

It is about the fact that Apple is a patent troll that sues everyone and their dead grandmother, and somehow wins some of the most ridiculous lawsuits. Then turns around and does the exact same thing they just sued another company for. Somehow this is OK with Apple fanboys. It doesn't make any sense....

Much like how Apple completely ripped off the "iPad" name and ignored the company that actually held the copyright/trademark to the name, blowing them off for a couple of years. Only offering to buy the rights to the name after enough noise about their blatant disregard for others protected property was generated.
Can you elaborate here? I hope you're not talking about Proview Taiwan, because if you are you've got the facts twisted considerably.
Quote:
Apple, from an ethical standpoint, is one of the worst companies on this planet, yet people don't care! They are suing people over rounded corners and the way you swipe your freaking finger. Yet companies like Google took the more mellow approach and developed technology and software that they give away free or license extremely cheaply.
Actually they aren't suing over rounded corners, or the way you swipe your finger. The one thing I notice about "haters" is that they oversimplify everything. If Samsung's only "infringement" was having a black front rectangle with rounded corners then Apple would have no case whatsoever. It's only in combination with a couple of other factors do they have any ground to hold. And since when do multi-touch patents not count as valid?

>>>>>

It does look like the Lumia, but not Samsung's MP3 player. Funnily enough you could argue that Samsung got the idea from the iPod, iPhone or iPod touch. However it looks like an evolution of the iPod nano, or a smaller iPod touch.
Edited by steelbom - 9/17/12 at 6:08pm
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post #874 of 934
Okay guys, I know a lot of you are a little upset but lets not throw the kitchen sink at one another shall we? smile.gif
post #875 of 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

If that was Apple's case they would have lost a long time ago. The Samsung and the iPod nano look nothing alike.
I just Googled for a Galaxy S vs iPhone image, I know nothing of it being photoshopped.
I didn't photoshop anything, I got it off Google. "Rounded eyes inside straight corners"? What?
Can you elaborate here? I hope you're not talking about Proview Taiwan, because if you are you've got the facts twisted considerably.
Actually they aren't suing over rounded corners, or the way you swipe your finger. The one thing I notice about "haters" is that they oversimplify everything. If Samsung's only "infringement" was having a black front rectangle with rounded corners then Apple would have no case whatsoever. It's only in combination with a couple of other factors do they have any ground to hold. And since when do multi-touch patents not count as valid?
>>>>>
It does look like the Lumia, but not Samsung's MP3 player. Funnily enough you could argue that Samsung got the idea from the iPod, iPhone or iPod touch. However it looks like an evolution of the iPod nano, or a smaller iPod touch.

I am talking about the Proview issue. Proview Internationale registered the trademark back in 2000, later Proview Electronics, one of their branches, sold the rights to a company called IP Applications Development. As it turned out IP Applications had very close ties to Apple, basically a shell company. Apple then purchased the rights to the name from IP Applications, except there was a problem! The original deal from Proview Electronics to IP Applications DID NOT include the trademark for the Chinese market!

Proview International approached Apple on the matter, and according to Proview they were met with "oppression, fraud and/or malice". Now of course Apple would NEVER have that type of attitude toward another company, not ever! Now, Proview knowing they still held the rights to the name in the Chinese market said "Screw it! We will sue!", so they did. Apple of course knowing they didn't have a chance of winning opted to settle, for $60 million, up from the $16 million they originally offered Proview. Though Proview originally wanted $400 million.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5entinel View Post

Okay guys, I know a lot of you are a little upset but lets not throw the kitchen sink at one another shall we? smile.gif

You say the kitchen sink good sir?

I believe Mr. Hasting of NetFlix has an extra...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-20066140-261.html
Quote:
Hastings told analysts that Blockbuster was throwing everything at them but the kitchen sink.
The next day, Hastings received a kitchen sink from Antioco.

biggrin.gif
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 9/17/12 at 6:35pm
    
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post #876 of 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

I am talking about the Proview issue. Proview Internationale registered the trademark back in 2000, later Proview Electronics, one of their branches, sold the rights to a company called IP Applications Development. As it turned out IP Applications had very close ties to Apple, basically a shell company. Apple then purchased the rights to the name from IP Applications, except there was a problem! The original deal from Proview Electronics to IP Applications DID NOT include the trademark for the Chinese market!

Proview International approached Apple on the matter, and according to Proview they were met with "oppression, fraud and/or malice". Now of course Apple would NEVER have that type of attitude toward another company, not ever! Now, Proview knowing they still held the rights to the name in the Chinese market said "Screw it! We will sue!", so they did. Apple of course knowing they didn't have a chance of winning opted to settle, for $60 million, up from the $16 million they originally offered Proview. Though Proview originally wanted $400 million.
That's not what happened.

Apple did buy the trademark from Proview Taiwan via IP Applications Development, which was an Apple owned company. But it did include the rights to the trademark in China. After the iPad became popular in China, Shenzhen Proview sued them for several billion, saying that Proview Taiwan (the parent company of Shenzhen Proview) didn't have the authority to sell the license for China because they owned the right to the trademark and thus it was invalid.

It was later found in a Hong Kong court that Proview had colluded with several other companies in an attempt to extort money out of Apple.
Quote:
Wednesday’s hearing focused on whether Proview Electronics, a Taiwan-based company, had the right to represent Shenzhen-based Proview Technology to sell the iPad trademark. Xiao Caiyuan, the attorney for Shenzhen Proview, said both Shenzhen Proview and Taiwan Proview are two independent companies and the contract signed between Taiwan Proview and Apple for the iPad trademark transfer on the mainland was invalid. Meanwhile, Apple’s lawyers said Taiwan Proview was indeed the same entity as Shenzhen Proview and that Apple has the right to use the iPad trademark on the mainland. Proview has had some success in getting retailers to stop selling the iPad as the dispute wears on. A court said last week that was illegal.
Reference: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/03/01/no-resolution-in-apple-vs-proview-court-case/

Even though it was a part of the contract, the child company is claiming that the parent company didn't have the authority to sell a license to the patent.
Quote:
Apple claims that it used a dummy corporation to purchase the Chinese rights to the iPad trademark in late 2009 as part of a broad deal with Proview's Taiwanese arm covering several markets and carrying a $55,000 purchase price. But Proview has argued that the Chinese rights were controlled by its Chinese arm and that the Taiwanese unit had no ability to sell them to Apple, despite the fact that corporate officers common to both units were involved in the deal.

Proview has since filed several suits against Apple, with reports of damage claims ranging up to $2 billion. For its part, Apple has been playing up a Hong Kong court ruling that found Proview and its subsidiaries had conspired to extort millions of dollars from Apple once it was discovered that Apple was behind the trademark purchase. Chinese courts have, however, yet to rule on the issue.
Reference: http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/20/apple-and-proview-in-settlement-talks-over-ipad-trademark-in-china/
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post #877 of 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

That's not what happened.
Apple did buy the trademark from Proview Taiwan via IP Applications Development, which was an Apple owned company. But it did include the rights to the trademark in China. After the iPad became popular in China, Shenzhen Proview sued them for several billion, saying that Proview Taiwan (the parent company of Shenzhen Proview) didn't have the authority to sell the license for China because they owned the right to the trademark and thus it was invalid.
It was later found in a Hong Kong court that Proview had colluded with several other companies in an attempt to extort money out of Apple.
Reference: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/03/01/no-resolution-in-apple-vs-proview-court-case/
Even though it was a part of the contract, the child company is claiming that the parent company didn't have the authority to sell a license to the patent.
Reference: http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/20/apple-and-proview-in-settlement-talks-over-ipad-trademark-in-china/

What, what? You realize that you essentially repeated what I said...

Apple purchased, through a shell company, the rights to a name. Except the deal wasn't legitimate for mainland China, and the owner of the protected property went after Apple for it. You simply added the part where Apple plays the helpless victim that is being "extorted".

It also doesn't matter if there is a "Parent" company or a "Child" company, so long as they are recognized as their own entity they can each have their own protected properties. Depending on how the business is structured a "Parent" company doesn't have the absolute right to just sell whatever the "child" company has. That child company very well could have assets the parent company can't touch.....

EDIT: The other fantastic thing about the entire saga was why did Apple feel the need to use a dummy corporation to make the purchase? Did they know that if they approached Proview as "Apple" and tried they would have been shot down or had to pay more, as the value of the name would have increased just by being purchased by Apple? Again, another underhanded and back-ally operation by Apple.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 9/17/12 at 7:26pm
    
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post #878 of 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

EDIT: The other fantastic thing about the entire saga was why did Apple feel the need to use a dummy corporation to make the purchase? Did they know that if they approached Proview as "Apple" and tried they would have been shot down or had to pay more, as the value of the name would have increased just by being purchased by Apple? Again, another underhanded and back-ally operation by Apple.

The obvious reason is that they didn't want the world knowing they were developing a tablet. If Apple themselves bought the name it would be headlines the next day.
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post #879 of 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

What, what? You realize that you essentially repeated what I said...

Apple purchased, through a shell company, the rights to a name. Except the deal wasn't legitimate for mainland China, and the owner of the protected property went after Apple for it. You simply added the part where Apple plays the helpless victim that is being "extorted".

It also doesn't matter if there is a "Parent" company or a "Child" company, so long as they are recognized as their own entity they can each have their own protected properties. Depending on how the business is structured a "Parent" company doesn't have the absolute right to just sell whatever the "child" company has. That child company very well could have assets the parent company can't touch.....

EDIT: The other fantastic thing about the entire saga was why did Apple feel the need to use a dummy corporation to make the purchase? Did they know that if they approached Proview as "Apple" and tried they would have been shot down or had to pay more, as the value of the name would have increased just by being purchased by Apple? Again, another underhanded and back-ally operation by Apple.
Uh no I did not. Only some parts of our posts about the acquisition lined up, and the rest of it is completely different. You said that the original deal didn't include the rights for the trademark in China, but it did, only that Proview Taiwan didn't have the right to sell it because Shenzhen Proview owned it.

Apple is the victim here. Proview's behaviour is fraudulent, they planned to extort money from Apple as was found in the Hong Kong case.

1. It isn't Apple's fault that Proview Taiwan offered them the rights to the trademark in China when they didn't own it. As far as Apple knew they owned those rights and thus never had the chance to acquire them from Shenzhen Proview.

2. It was only after Proview was going bankrupt did they try to sue Apple, and that's after the iPad became largely successful in China, not immediately after they saw the infringement. And they tried to sue for two billion dollars.

3. From one of my quote's: Corporate officers common to both units were involved in the deal.

Again:
Quote:
For its part, Apple has been playing up a Hong Kong court ruling that found Proview and its subsidiaries had conspired to extort millions of dollars from Apple once it was discovered that Apple was behind the trademark purchase.

And the most likely reason that they used a dummy corporation (which is as far as I know a common practice) is so that their plans to make a tablet were kept secret. It had been rumoured for years that Apple was working on a tablet... and then news they purchase the rights to "iPad"? Not good for them.
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post #880 of 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJRhoades View Post

The obvious reason is that they didn't want the world knowing they were developing a tablet. If Apple themselves bought the name it would be headlines the next day.

That is what an NDA is for, the disclosure is easily hidden by one and holds the other company liable should it be leaked. So no, this wouldn't be why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

You said that the original deal didn't include the rights for the trademark in China, but it did, only that Proview Taiwan didn't have the right to sell it because Shenzhen Proview owned it.
Apple is the victim here. Proview's behaviour is fraudulent, they planned to extort money from Apple as was found in the Hong Kong case.

Do you realize how much sense what you are saying doesn't make?

The deal with Proview Taiwan could not have included, "originally", the rights if Proview Taiwan didn't have the rights to sell it in the first place. This isn't the case of Apple being the victim, this is a case of Apple not doing their homework and/or trying to circumvent the actual rights holder.

As for "fraudulent behavior", please provide me the court ruling where Proview was found to be breaking the law...
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 9/17/12 at 8:48pm
    
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