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[BusinessWeek] Plugged In: AMD bets future on bold vision - Page 3

post #21 of 75
I doubt AMD will succeed simply because of Intel's death grip on the market
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post #22 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

I doubt AMD will succeed simply because of Intel's death grip on the market

Or maybe you hope they won't succeed. wink.gif
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post #23 of 75
Actually I hope they do. I'd like to have a laptop with a good CPU and iGP. Current Trinity and ivy Bridge really doesn't really impress me though. I'm hoping that Kaveri will offer a big step up in performance with GCN shaders and fully shared memory.
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post #24 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by karan.t View Post

Excuse my ignorance but
Stopped reading right there.
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post #25 of 75
"If Intel is not able to come up with some sort of coding architecture that can rival HSA, AMD is going to dominate in every market and in every task so long as software companies keep jumping on board. All those new hardware innovations... the 14nm, the 2x graphics performance, the 22nm Atom, none of them are going to amount to anything anymore."

Wow, can I have some of what you're smoking?

I didn't get the same message from that press release at all. What I saw was a high level executive spitting out copious amounts of buzzwords that won't amount to anything.

AMD is doing ARM, which is a very low margin business compared to x86. HSA might provide a new paradigm in the mobile space if it's forced on developers through a mandated iOS framework, perhaps, but what does that mean for AMD? Even if HSA takes off, it will be an open standard that all ARM manufacturers can implement (or else it will never penetrate the Android space). This doesn't mean extra profit for AMD.

AMD is focusing on chip designs made by other companies (ARM holding), using fabs that they don't own, in an extremely crowded mobile market. I don't see that as a victorious future. They're pinning any hope of decent margins on their GPU implementation, but they already have strong competition from the existing mobile GPUs that are widely used, as well as from NVIDIA, who got into this game years ago and imo has a much more capable R&D division graphics wise.
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post #26 of 75
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

Keeping jumping on board? AMD's problem is that they can get barely any OEMs to buy their hardware and barely any software developers to support it. As long as Intel maintains that stranglehold on 'partners' nothing is changing. As it is right now it looks like AMD's one advantage in graphics is likely going to be wiped out by Intel within the year.

 

http://hsafoundation.com/ wat

 

By the way, here's a list of the companies supporting HSA that AMD have already gathered (taken from the Tom's article linked below) - and I see some pretty damn big companies on this list.

 

--------

 

I'm disappointed to see that many people are still misunderstanding what exactly HSA is.


HSA is neither something that is exclusively happening on the hardware or software level. That's why I didn't post this in either hardware or software news. It is an entire new level of integration (literally) that will be absolutely revolutionary to computing.

 

HSA (once called "Fusion") is a level of integration that AMD has made possible within their hardware that gives software an advantage.  It is beyond the integration of CPU and GPU in one package, which has already been demonstrated.  It is a level of integration that will give HSA-optimized software an advantage that will be unmatched by any other offering.  It will enable software to be coded efficiently AND easily to provide better performance without any money needing to be spent on researching to provide new and better hardware.  Every HSA-enabled program will cost less to develop and run and use up less power on HSA-enabled hardware. This is innovative because it will truly open up technology for the BILLIONS. You will no longer need to spend thousands to get hardware that will run a program to a specific level of performance. HSA will allow that to be done on hardware that costs significantly less to buy and can cost less to develop - it will also allow for better performing software that costs less money and time to develop. In short, it's the best for everyone involved.  And, unlike Intel's Knight's Corner/Larabee/etc, HSA's implementation will also be available at the consumer level and across all types of platforms - including, perhaps, on smartphones and tablets - and be able to provide varying levels of performance with needs, design, and power envelope.

[Everyone should read this]

 

The level of integration provided by HSA provides a balance that allows applications to be coded to utilize both the CPU & GPU (thus provide high performance output at efficient power level), without the more intense workload and hard programming architectures needed to learn to program specifically to take advantage of the GPU with previous solutions such as OpenCL and CUDA.  The image below basically explains everything:

 

Quote:
"At the end of the day, we’re not maniacally focused on beating a single company," says AMD’s Joe Macri. "We’re maniacally focused on up-leveling the experience of all consumers. By doing that, many of our competition will fall out. They’ll not have the IP, or they’ll have only some of the IP. Or maybe they’ll be forced to merge, which is a very difficult thing."

Edited by xd_1771 - 9/14/12 at 6:41pm
post #27 of 75
Sounds awesome, now AMD needs to start investing more money in developing software on their own.
Edited by motoray - 9/14/12 at 4:43pm
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post #28 of 75
AMD, The Little Engine That Could biggrin.gif
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post #29 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post

And everyone needs to realize that if Intel is not able to come up with some sort of coding architecture that can rival HSA, AMD is going to dominate in every market and in every task so long as software companies keep jumping on board.

Intel came up with something 3 years ago, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larrabee_%28microarchitecture%29

Skylake will have it in 2015.
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post #30 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by liskawc View Post

unless such things would be able to shoot out huge amount of FLOPS(which i dont see how), then i do not see amd beating intel in the server/hpc segment; even the desktop/gaming would not gain much from this

however this does seem great for "mobile" platforms

Quote:
Originally Posted by karan.t View Post

Excuse my ignorance but the way i see things is that AMD cant match the performance of Intel CPU's for the same price.
Graphics yes they are better but computing performance, Intel out performs.
Most of the customers i come across are general consumers and they who care more about the performance of the PC than graphics. The consumers who want a PC for gaming normally buy Intel with a discreet GPU but most don't require it,
This is what i have seen with general consumers mostly buying mobile PCs and care mostly about how fast their PC runs, how long the battery life is, how thin it is, how light it is. This all is a priority over the Graphics performance.

Plus among them, AMD do have a negative brand image. As in if you are buying a AMD machine you are buying a budget PC, you are sacrificing performance to save money.

Currently you can buy a second gen i3 for the same price as a e2-300m or e2-450m. And thats the biggest battle. Anything above that range its all Intel i5's.

CPU and GPU combined is the way forward for general consumers too but CPU performance is still a priority.
I have seen people play mainstream games on Intel HD Graphics just fine, I have also seen external GPU on youtube connected using Thunderbolt (lucid) for people who want to play high end games.

For me the way forward is Ultrabooks with discreet or in the future external graphics if needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mechtech View Post

"If Intel is not able to come up with some sort of coding architecture that can rival HSA, AMD is going to dominate in every market and in every task so long as software companies keep jumping on board. All those new hardware innovations... the 14nm, the 2x graphics performance, the 22nm Atom, none of them are going to amount to anything anymore."

Wow, can I have some of what you're smoking?

I didn't get the same message from that press release at all. What I saw was a high level executive spitting out copious amounts of buzzwords that won't amount to anything.

AMD is doing ARM, which is a very low margin business compared to x86. HSA might provide a new paradigm in the mobile space if it's forced on developers through a mandated iOS framework, perhaps, but what does that mean for AMD? Even if HSA takes off, it will be an open standard that all ARM manufacturers can implement (or else it will never penetrate the Android space). This doesn't mean extra profit for AMD.

AMD is focusing on chip designs made by other companies (ARM holding), using fabs that they don't own, in an extremely crowded mobile market. I don't see that as a victorious future. They're pinning any hope of decent margins on their GPU implementation, but they already have strong competition from the existing mobile GPUs that are widely used, as well as from NVIDIA, who got into this game years ago and imo has a much more capable R&D division graphics wise.

HSA allows for stuff that would run faster on GPUs (a lot of stuff) to be automatically offloaded to the IGP (or DGP if you prefer). That can increase performance, sometimes RIDICULOUSLY (like >10x). As I understand it, when you've got a ton of different instructions being executed, CPUs can do better -- but on anything in which you'll have a lot of the same instruction, GPUs will do much better due to, simply, the way they're designed. So GPGPU isn't exactly great for everything, though HSA will route appropriate tasks to the appropriate unit.

Intel's strong CPU performance doesn't mean anywhere near as much as it does now in an HSA world. Plus, AMD's set to get some great CPU perf bumps with SR, and the platform as a whole with both SR and Excavator (EX?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoxile View Post

I doubt AMD will succeed simply because of Intel's death grip on the market

I really hope you're wrong. That would be a sad reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erunion View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post

And everyone needs to realize that if Intel is not able to come up with some sort of coding architecture that can rival HSA, AMD is going to dominate in every market and in every task so long as software companies keep jumping on board.

Intel came up with something 3 years ago, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larrabee_%28microarchitecture%29

Skylake will have it in 2015.

Larrabee was a complete failure and was cancelled. Don't see anything about it coming with Skylake, though I doubt it considering that R&D ended 2 years ago.
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