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24bit/192 kHz music makes no sense - Page 2

post #11 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesekiwi View Post


All things equal, digital is a vastly superior format.

i understand. but my ears tell me that vinyl is much clearer and in my setup projects sound way out side the speakers (sounds cheesy but life like 3D audio). It also feels natural and on some tracks hypnotic.
post #12 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post

Because it allows you to hear INTO THE FUTURE.
Think about it.
Plus, we all want to hear Mariah Carey's voice which clearly echo's up to 50khz which can be recorded by an Earthworks mic, so you need 96khz bro.
wink.gif

Read the article maybe bro?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinesekiwi View Post

Audio Myths Workshophttp://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/dynamic-comparison-of-lps-vs-cds-part-4
http://www.ethanwiner.com/bitstest.html - blind test time.
16 bit, 44.1 kHz is plenty for music playback when used properly. The difference is that a lot of LP / vinyl releases have greater audible dynamic range / less dynamic range compression (that's well within the 44.1 kHz sampling rate) and thus the audible difference but this has nothing to do with the medium it is on.
All things equal, digital is a vastly superior format.

Interesting. Thanks for the post!
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post #13 of 29
I use 24/192 simply because I can. If you have the storage space for it and a DAC that will accept it, why not use it? If you have a room that will hold hundreds of records and a record player to play them on, nobody should stop you from enjoying them! thumb.gif

I remember reading this article you linked awhile ago. It mentioned information about how the ultrasonic signals can be transposed by a poorly designed crossover network and potentially causing damage or interference with the true audio that is supposed to be produced. This is the only thing that worries me about high bit rate/sample rate music.
Edited by Greg121986 - 9/25/12 at 1:43pm
post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post

i understand. but my ears tell me that vinyl is much clearer and in my setup projects sound way out side the speakers (sounds cheesy but life like 3D audio). It also feels natural and on some tracks hypnotic.

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/what-we-hear.html

As stated, it'll be due to the dynamic range of the track, NOT the medium it's on:

Well produced and dynamic range matters far from than the medium it's on:

Here's ~156kbps AAC 16 bit 44.1 kHz for you:

(720p please)
post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg121986 View Post

I use 24/192 simply because I can. If you have the storage space for it and a DAC that will accept it, why not use it? If you have a room that will hold hundreds of records and a record player to play them on, nobody should stop you from enjoying them! thumb.gif

Only problem is that 192 kHz serves no purpose. No musical instrument produces over 70 kHz. Not only that, but as stated in Dan Lavry's 'Sampling Theory For Digital Audio'
Quote:
Conclusion:

There is an inescapable tradeoff between faster sampling on one hand and a loss of accuracy,
increased data size and much additional processing requirement on the other hand.

AD converter designers can not generate 20 bits at MHz speeds, yet they often utilize a circuit
yielding a few bits at MHz speeds as a step towards making many bits at lower speeds.

The compromise between speed and accuracy is a permanent engineering and scientific
reality.

Sampling audio signals at 192KHz is about 3 times faster than the optimal rate.
It compromises the accuracy which ends up as audio distortions.

While there is no up side to operation at excessive speeds, there are further disadvantages:
1. The increased speed causes larger amount of data (impacting data storage and data
transmission speed requirements).
2. Operating at 192KHz causes a very significant increase in the required processing
power, resulting in very costly gear and/or further compromise in audio quality.


The optimal sample rate should be largely based on the required signal bandwidth. Audio
industry salesman have been promoting faster than optimal rates. The promotion of such ideas
is based on the fallacy that faster rates yield more accuracy and/or more detail. Weather
motivated by profit or ignorance, the promoters, leading the industry in the wrong direction, are
stating the opposite of what is true.

24/96 is all you need at max. You can't reproduce things that aren't there in the first place!
In a practical sense, 96 kHz sampling rate is useful to capture every sound, including ultrasonics, in a recording [unless you are recording whales communicating with one another) and 24 bit is useful for VST use and if you use the digital volume control a lot, as lowering the digital volume control sheds off bits (1 bit = every ~6 dB). As the old saying goes: Record at 24/96, playback at 16/44.1.

It's the same as anything over 120Hz / 120 FPS serves no purpose for 'smoothness' ala motion detection for gaming or video due human physical limits. An eagle will notice the difference, not you. And men have greater motion detection on average than women, while women have greater colour perception on average.
post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg121986 View Post

I use 24/192 simply because I can. If you have the storage space for it and a DAC that will accept it, why not use it?.

Why do you only have 8 gigs of RAM, You have the slots for more, and the board clearly supports more!
post #17 of 29
<3 SACD

192 might be overkill but there is room for improvement over 16/44
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post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwnedINC View Post

Why do you only have 8 gigs of RAM, You have the slots for more, and the board clearly supports more!

I don't have more slots for RAM. I've found my limitation for the RAM that I need. Just as I've found that I have not begun to approach my limit of my 20TB server.

Are you ever going to Mars? Why should we send a mechanical device there? If a human can't go there, there really isn't any reason for us to care about it, right? Why would we want to study the universe? It's so huge that we could never actually touch it. We should probably just leave it alone. Why would someone buy a Ferrari F12? You can't legally drive 211 MPH, just buy a 2 cylinder Fiat Panda, it can get you to where you're going and it's rated at 67MPG to boot! This could continue. rolleyes.gif

Another thing, why did we ever stop living in caves? My house is stupid, there are too many rooms and I think a 1 room cave is probably fine. I can't be in all of the rooms in my house at once anyway. rolleyes.gif
post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindsay View Post

<3 SACD
192 might be overkill but there is room for improvement over 16/44

SACD is the same as vinyl. It's due to the dynamic range of the track, not because of the medium (see reason 4 below)

- http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/dynamic-comparison-sacd-vs-cd-part-5
Quote:
First of all, regardless of whether Café Blue was originally recorded in analog or low-resolution PCM, it still doesn't change the observation that it is an excellent recording. Perhaps it is a useful reminder to us just how good 44.1kHz 16-bits can be, especially when all 16-bits are used and dynamic compression is avoided.

The differences between the CD-R of the original release and the remastered CD layer also highlight the benefits of careful remastering using the latest technology can bring even to digital recordings.

In that case, what accounts for the audible differences between the CD and SACD layers? I'll leave it up to the reader to draw his/her own conclusions, but here are some possible reasons:

* There are no differences between the CD and SACD layers. Any observable differences are purely a figment of the listener's imagination
* The differences are due to the relative accuracy of the player in reproducing PCM vs DSD.
* The differences are due to the CD layer clipping or exhibiting 0dBFS+ levels.
* The differences are due to the SACD revealing more of the benefits of the remaster that was possibly done using high resolution processing.
* The differences are due to the DSD ultrasonic noise somehow affecting the playback chain or our hearing.
* The differences are primarily due to the relative level difference between the layers (the SACD layer is on average around 0.7dB louder than the CD layer which would be just audible).
post #20 of 29
while the medium in of itself is nothing special, a regular CD doesnt have the capacity required....

and to be honest its a mute point, fact of the matter is SACD > CD regardless of how its achieved
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