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[XbitLabs] Intel Haswell Processors to Further Improve Overclocking. - Page 9

post #81 of 101
When I looked this up, becuase i had not heard it before it was mentioned in this thread, I got the impression it was only for the 10w tdp chips, maybe the whole ULV lineup. Which is where it makes sense. Power/tdp savings are king there. Everywhere else I'm thinking you'll see standard vrm practice.

Yeroon
post #82 of 101
I want 6ghz without DICE or LN2!!
    
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post #83 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenixlight View Post

They should just completely lock down their entire i3 and i5 CPU lineup and then make all of the i7's fully unlocked; this would provide people with more incentive to buy the more expensive platform which would generate more revenue for Intel since the profit margins are higher for the i7's.
So I should have to buy a pointless hyperthreading chip just so I have the option to overclock?

Haha, no thank you.
post #84 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by hak8or View Post

Ok, there is no way that they can fit the entire Voltage regulator onto the chip. The passives, such as inductors and capacitors, stay on the motherboard because of their size. You cannot make smaller inductors and capacitors without increasing the switching frequency drastically, which will in turn generate lots of heat and eventually become very inaffeciant. The difference haswell will make for the VRM, or voltage regulators, is that they put the controller, the thing that says "ok, the voltage is 20 millivolts too high, fix that now" onto the chip.
Here is an example of a voltage regulator used specifically for processors. http://www.irf.com/product-info/ipowir/fs8063.html
And an example of a full blown buck converter (SMPS). http://www.irf.com/technical-info/refdesigns/irdcip2003a-c.pdf
Why this is better than having discreet voltage regulators I do not know, all reason would tell me that it would actually worsen the quality of power significantly because a very good voltage regulator takes a significant amount of space on the chip, something Intel does not want. Not to mention we do not know how many phases the voltage regulator supplied by haswell will have. Will it be 4, or 12, or allow for more phases via a dedicated chip? Yes, power efficiency will be very good, but I actually see this as very threatening towards overclocking, because the quality of power to the chip may be decreased. It does make it cheaper for motherboard manufactures though, since they do not have to include or worry about a voltage regulator.
If anyone is interested, the voltage regulation scheme used for processors is called a buck converter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_converter
If you want to supply a lot of current, then you use synchronous buck converters, otherwise known as a buck converter with multiple phases. Multiple phases mean that you have a pair of mosfets (switches) and an inductor per each phase.The more the phases, the better response time (normally) and less strain on each mosfet and inductor. It splits the demand per phase so to speak. That is why when you look on a motherboard near the processor you often see little cubes, those are the inductors. If the motherboard is designed for overclocking or hefty processors, both of which require large currents, then the mosfets have heatsinks on them.
I am an aspiring EE, so feel free to ask any more questions, I would be happy to answer them or link to more information! smile.gif
Um, a synchronous buck converter doesn't mean it has multiple phases, it means you replace the diode with another switch, usually to improve efficiency. You can have a synchronous buck converter with one phase, and a non-synchronous buck converter with multiple phases.
Edited by TranquilTempest - 9/25/12 at 3:39am
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post #85 of 101
Very much looking forward to this. So it looks like the Intergrated voltage regular wont hurt the OC after all? Has me curious how it will do along with this news today.
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post #86 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitech View Post

It's also not like a significantly high portion of its customers and OEM's are enthusiast Core i5 overclockers. And the result? Little profit for Intel and a mass of pissed-off enthusiasts on budgets whom may switch to AMD's Piledrivers = loss of customers = lost profit.

It's not, maybe 5% of their total revenue would come from people who were wanting to overclock the i5's as far as they could. The result is that Intel won't lose out, the people who want i5 performance will still have it and those who allegedly can't help themselves but upgrade when new things come out will continue to buy their stuff. Who cares if there's a few pissed off enthusiasts? The so called enthusiasts will keep wasting their money on Intel because Piledriver won't be able to beat their current I7 lineup going on what we know about it so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post

So I should have to buy a pointless hyperthreading chip just so I have the option to overclock?
Haha, no thank you.
You're not supposed to like it, you're a consumer.
Edited by Phoenixlight - 9/25/12 at 5:05am
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post #87 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenixlight View Post

It's not, maybe 5% of their total revenue would come from people who were wanting to overclock the i5's as far as they could. The result is that Intel won't lose out, the people who want i5 performance will still have it and those who allegedly can't help themselves but upgrade when new things come out will continue to buy their stuff. Who cares if there's a few pissed off enthusiasts? The so called enthusiasts will keep wasting their money on Intel because Piledriver won't be able to beat their current I7 lineup going on what we know about it so far.
You're not supposed to like it, you're a consumer.

The people who would buy K edition i5s would just buy AMD instead. It's just a poor business decision for intel in general. They wouldn't win at all, they'd just be losing customers.
 
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post #88 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

The people who would buy K edition i5s would just buy AMD instead. It's just a poor business decision for intel in general. They wouldn't win at all, they'd just be losing customers.
Unlikely, unless AMD had better performance.
Edited by Phoenixlight - 9/27/12 at 1:24pm
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post #89 of 101
wondering if they keep using that poor TIM under IHS still ... if so than soon overclocking will be only possible with LN2 ha ha!oinksmiley.png
post #90 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenixlight View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

The people who would buy K edition i5s would just buy AMD instead. It's just a poor business decision for intel in general. They wouldn't win at all, they'd just be losing customers.
Unlikely AMD had better performance.

If Vishera has IPC comparable to Phenom II... one at 5GHz would be roughly equal to a stock i5-2500 in single-threaded. And then in multithreaded... not looking good for Intel.

It's bad enough that they don't have an unlocked i3.
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