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post #51 of 106

I spy with my little eye another game taht will be played by these hands and crushed under this mind. 

 
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post #52 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

I wish someone would release a game, like in the old days, that require thinking and didn't tell you where to go....
Anyone else remember playing the old school RPG's that would say "Go North, save the damsel" , you then look North and realize your journey started at the most Southern point on the map, and the entire game world is North? Yea....the good old days. Having to speak with every NPC in order to gain some insight on the next step, exploring the world map looking for the next cave you have to go too....
No arrows and painted lines in those days.

Yeah you had me until you started talking about old achool rpgs and nutty npcs. Letting players play their own way is good. Forcing them to play based on some convoluted arbitrary set of fantasy laws the creaters made up is not good. The only thing worse than the CoD railway shooters are the "read page 37 of the manual to learn that you stick the coconut up the donkey's arse and punch in your 4 digit PIN representing your character's mother's maiden name on it's teets to unlock it's poo cannon and shoot down the invisible wall" rpgs.
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post #53 of 106
whats worse is kids brought up on games liek lego star wars... There is no real penalty for Dieing....

When I was his age I was dieing relentlessly in Contra. Being forced to start over every time. ANd whats worse? Lego Star Wars even allows you to use God Mode...
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post #54 of 106
Sad news in deed but that's how the industry has made it and only the industry can change it. I miss the days of Gradius and just well shmups in general. Twitch reflexes and being aware of EVERYTHING on the map at all times. I guess those days are gone forever..
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post #55 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Yeah you had me until you started talking about old achool rpgs and nutty npcs. Letting players play their own way is good. Forcing them to play based on some convoluted arbitrary set of fantasy laws the creaters made up is not good. The only thing worse than the CoD railway shooters are the "read page 37 of the manual to learn that you stick the coconut up the donkey's arse and punch in your 4 digit PIN representing your character's mother's maiden name on it's teets to unlock it's poo cannon and shoot down the invisible wall" rpgs.

What the heck kind of game have you been playing?

Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, Phantasy Star, Fire Emblem, Breath of Fire, etc, never had these situations. Yes there was a defined story line, but you were free to roam and explore, to level up at will, and only proceed down the main story line when you felt ready. Heck, even the first Final Fantasy had numerous Easter Eggs, hidden areas, and other tid-bits to explore.
    
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post #56 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse^_^ View Post

Duke Nukem Forever had thinking, got shunned by yupi game reviewers.
Far Cry 2 had barely any hints and let you have freedom, it got shunned too.
Yet a boring A-B CoD campaign with no thinking at all require is 10/10 so amazing!
Good luck to the Dev.


The STALKER series is amazing, and the last game (CoP) doesn't even give you basic instructions at the beginning. It puts you in the middle of nowhere and basically says "deal with it".

I never had any issues with FC2 because of instructions. The issue was that it involved TONS of driving, and enemies re spawned every 5 minutes.
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post #57 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Crouch jumping exists for more than simply jumping higher, it also allows you to fit in smaller spaces and to add difficulty to an otherwise mindlessly easy activity.
If the goal is to make a simple mechanic needlessly difficult for no gain, then sure. If that's your goal though you shouldn't be designing video games, you should be designing torture devices.

Also the "fit into tiny spaces" mechanic is crouching, crouch-jumping is the in-air effect of crouching (at least in the half life games, where you jump marginally higher). I don't think it's necessarily bad as an advanced mechanic (neat little shortcuts? sure! hidden areas? why not!), but if you just have to jump over a gap to even progress, what's added to the game by making you crouch in order to make the jump successfully, other than likely making 90%or more of the player base jump a second time, and punishing them for not always crouch jumping (hell, might as well turn jump into a macro that always crouches for you, I know several people that do).
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post #58 of 106
I don't necessarily think games have to hold players hands these days because gamers have become used to dumbed down games, I just think that games are often very poorly designed and so they have to pretty much tell you what to do since it's not intuitive. On LEGO Universe we had to go through a lot of trial and error with play tests to get things to be intuitive. There was still some hand holding because we needed 8 year olds to understand MMO mechanics, but we found that often we could do things much better by changing layouts or breaking down missions into smaller parts that made sense, which would give the player a better sense of what they were participating in. Things like having menus where you can check mission objectives, and making sure mission objectives are clear. Being able to go back to the NPC that gave you a mission and have them redescribe what they want you to do just in case it wasn't clear the first time. Some of this sounds like common sense, but many games forget to do even the simplest of things to help players in ways that just make sense, and instead hold your hand by giving you arrows that point the way, or a glowing path to follow, or a pinpoint on a map that shows you what location to walk to. /spiel
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellis142 View Post

I don't know about you guys, but Far Cry 2 was fantastic in my opinion.

And Crysis was incredible in terms of thinking. I believe, in my heart, many gamers shunned that title because it gave them TOO much freedom they weren't used to.

I hated Far Cry 2 because travelling was terrible. You'd get malaria and have a limited amount of time to get back to town from a couple of miles away. Ok, so you decide to take a vehicle back to town, you figure, hey I'll just drive back the way I came where I killed all of those guys already, should be easy. But then, all the guys are back. Ok, well I'll just drive quickly through the camps and they won't have a chance to hit me. You proceed to drive 60 mph through their checkpoint, no enemy vehicles in sight, and as soon as you're through the camp there is suddenly a vehicle behind you going 60 mph instantly. Looks like you'll need to get out and fight, so you get out of the vehicle and manage to fight off the enemies. I guess next time I'll be more careful when I find an enemy camp. So you approach the next enemy camp and from a large distance, you hide behind a bush with a sniper rifle, as you're aiming at one of the NPCs they see you and start shooting at you. Yes, from 500 yards away, behind a bush, they saw you without looking and without any binoculars, so I guess you'll have to fight this one out as well, so you switch weapons and then ... your game crashes. You reload the game and you've just lost 15 minutes of progress.

I did this for a few hours and then called it quits, worst game I've purchased in the last 10 years, bar none.
Edited by lordikon - 9/29/12 at 11:37pm
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post #59 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

I hated Far Cry 2 because travelling was terrible. You'd get malaria and have a limited amount of time to get back to town from a couple of miles away. Ok, so you decide to take a vehicle back to town, you figure, hey I'll just drive back the way I came where I killed all of those guys already, should be easy. But then, all the guys are back. Ok, well I'll just drive quickly through the camps and they won't have a chance to hit me. You proceed to drive 60 mph through their checkpoint, no enemy vehicles in sight, and as soon as you're through the camp there is suddenly a vehicle behind you going 60 mph instantly. Looks like you'll need to get out and fight, so you get out of the vehicle and manage to fight off the enemies. I guess next time I'll be more careful when I find an enemy camp. So you approach the next enemy camp and from a large distance, you hide behind a bush with a sniper rifle, as you're aiming at one of the NPCs they see you and start shooting at you. Yes, from 500 yards away, behind a bush, they saw you without looking and without any binoculars, so I guess you'll have to fight this one out as well, so you switch weapons and then ... your game crashes. You reload the game and you've just lost 15 minutes of progress.
I did this for a few hours and then called it quits, worst game I've purchased in the last 10 years, bar none.

Spot on account of my experience in FC2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeio View Post

If the goal is to make a simple mechanic needlessly difficult for no gain, then sure. If that's your goal though you shouldn't be designing video games, you should be designing torture devices.
Also the "fit into tiny spaces" mechanic is crouching, crouch-jumping is the in-air effect of crouching (at least in the half life games, where you jump marginally higher). I don't think it's necessarily bad as an advanced mechanic (neat little shortcuts? sure! hidden areas? why not!), but if you just have to jump over a gap to even progress, what's added to the game by making you crouch in order to make the jump successfully, other than likely making 90%or more of the player base jump a second time, and punishing them for not always crouch jumping (hell, might as well turn jump into a macro that always crouches for you, I know several people that do).

By your logic, why require jumping at all? What does jumping add to the game other than having to press a button for the sake of pressing a button? All it does is punish people who don't jump. Might as well bind a macro to noclip every time you move so you don't have to jump.
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post #60 of 106
Thread Starter 
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Edited by Rotsae - 4/1/14 at 11:25pm
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