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[Escapist] Steam TOS Leads to Trouble in Germany

post #1 of 120
9/22/12 at 3:04am
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Quote:
Consumer response to Valve's "my way or the highway" was surprisingly muted (well, it wasn't all that surprising, really) but German consumer group Verbraucherzentrale Bundesverband (Federation of German Consumer Organizations), heretofore referred to as VZBV, isn't satisfied with the change. It said that the choice of agreeing to the new terms or facing the loss of all Steam content amounts to "coercion," and it has given Valve until September 26 to respond to its demands that the content denial provision be changed.

If Valve refuses to do so, or fails to respond to the demand, the VZBV may elect to take the matter to court. The most likely outcome is some kind of compromise that accommodates German and/or E.U. law, but in a theoretical worst-case scenario, Valve could decide to simply drop Steam support in Germany.

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post #2 of 120
9/22/12 at 3:17am
Umm sucks too be german? rolleyes.gif Am i being ignorant here or am i missing the point.
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post #3 of 120
9/22/12 at 3:21am
Drop Steam support in the strongest economy of the EU ? Completely unlikely.

I hope that the VZBV wins. As much as I like Valve and Steam, there has to be a compromise that puts the consumer on an equal ground against companies. This whole movement of privatizing justice just because it's faster and potentially cheaper (also because it's faster, time = money), may very well be good among companies, but between companies who have a strong legal team behind them and private individuals who have no idea of the composition of these arbitration courts, the parties are most likely not on equal ground.
Edited by tpi2007 - 9/22/12 at 3:24am
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post #4 of 120
9/22/12 at 3:28am
This is the prior story.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Valve-Slammed-By-Consumer-Protection-Issued-Cease-Desist-Anti-Consumerist-EULA-47038.html

I can understand why gamers disagree with the possibly losing all their games from disagreeing with the ToS. It will be interesting to see the ramifications of this case and how it affects Steam gamers and possibly how other digital distributions stores (PSN, XBL, Origin, UPlay, etc.) operate in Germany.
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post #5 of 120
9/22/12 at 3:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_dalder_I View Post

Umm sucks too be german? rolleyes.gif Am i being ignorant here or am i missing the point.

Depends on whether you want your firstborn and your soul to belong to some corporation simply because an EULA or TOS says so. Don't want your rights? Side with Valve.

I have never liked Steam and I hate using their service because they can shut your account down and you have no rights. What users should ask themselves is why this, oh so divine company, would actually need to add the clause that users have no right to sue them to their TOS? What are they planning?
Edited by Liranan - 9/22/12 at 3:42am
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post #6 of 120
9/22/12 at 3:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Depends on whether you want your firstborn and your soul to belong to some corporation simply because an EULA or TOS says so. Don't want your rights? Side with Valve.
I have never liked Steam and I hate using their service because they can shut your account down and you have no rights. What users should ask themselves is why this, oh so divine company, would actually need to add the clause that users have no right to sue them to their TOS? What are they planning?

You do know that EULA/TOS is not law and in cases where local law and the EULA/TOS conflict local law will pretty much always supersede the EULA/TOS. That been said I'm not exactly fond of companies putting shady crap in there EULA/TOS so its nice that there are organizations that look into thees maters.
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post #7 of 120
9/22/12 at 3:49am
This is good. There are no absolute rights to be able to use Steam, but if you've bought stuff on there and you don't agree to these new anal class action terms of service, you shouldn't lose all your games. They should just make it so you can't buy new content until you do. Or maybe do anything on Steam except play the games. That'd be fine.

I'm eagerly awaiting the first EU nation to challenge the preowned sales thing. That's going to be a total storm of excrement when it hits. But, at the end of the day, we should have a right to resell the licenses we pay money for. It never harmed the gaming industry before publishers decided it was so wrong.
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post #8 of 120
9/22/12 at 4:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

You do know that EULA/TOS is not law and in cases where local law and the EULA/TOS conflict local law will pretty much always supersede the EULA/TOS. That been said I'm not exactly fond of companies putting shady crap in there EULA/TOS so its nice that there are organizations that look into thees maters.

I agree, in Canada the arbitration clause is illegal thus we have a different TOS. I think one of the biggest groans is when companies like steam or facebook change the TOS after you've purchased or used something. Its good that consumer groups point out junk sometimes or we the end user would be screwed. Have you ever read an EULA?
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post #9 of 120
9/22/12 at 4:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bit_reaper View Post

You do know that EULA/TOS is not law and in cases where local law and the EULA/TOS conflict local law will pretty much always supersede the EULA/TOS. That been said I'm not exactly fond of companies putting shady crap in there EULA/TOS so its nice that there are organizations that look into thees maters.

I am well aware that EULA's and TOS' aren't law, I was being sarcastic. However, there are enough people who believe that what is written in some random arbitrary 'agreement' is immediately binding. Most of these agreements are written with specific US laws in mind, thus are not valid in any other country or maybe even state.

The following explains the difference between US and EU law.
Quote:
Where the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy - tangible or intangible - and at the same time concludes, in return form payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period, that rightholder sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right. Such a transaction involves a transfer of the right of ownership of the copy. Therefore, even if the licence agreement prohibits a further transfer, the rightholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy.

http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2012-07/cp120094en.pdf

In the US it's the copyright holder who is almighty, God and has the power to determine how you use the product. Thus you don't own the product, whereas in the EU you do.
Edited by Liranan - 9/22/12 at 4:38am
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post #10 of 120
9/22/12 at 4:39am
valve treats you as if you are merely renting games for the price of the full game. as much as I love them, they seem to be acting a lot like apple's music store; you don't actually own anything, you are merely renting.
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