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post #61 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

I'm pretty sure the Dark Souls case is rare, and Dark Souls specifically said from the beginning that they hadn't done a PC game before, and it would be a straight port. They did it for the community after the community begged for it, and then when the community got it a bunch of them whined about it.
I'd rather have 30fps games with no AA and low-res, if they're really good games, then really good looking games that cost $60 and are complete trash. We've been getting more of the latter unfortunately.

Unfortunately the sad truth is that 'whining' is what really works in this industry. I don't see why anyone would be annoyed by it, if you enjoy a product then nothing's stopping you from enjoying it. Other people whining and complaining should not affect your enjoyment. They're fully entitled to their opinion and expressing it in places that allow it.

Another funny thing about the Dark souls poll is that people always say how From software told us that they had no experience. Well I dunno about you guys but I was among the tens and tens of thousands of people that actually signed the petition before we heard anything from From. What I expected was the most basic industry standards for the PC.

Also we haven't been getting more crappy games with extreme eye candy. That's just what the AAA gaming industry's marketing machine puts out. Especially the PC market is getting better and more products than ever but people are still mainly fixated on the big marketing campaigns and money milking sequels.

Most of us should just stop dwelling over the AAA industry and let them have their mass market appeal. Those games aren't made with us in mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

Comparing BF3 is a bad example. The games that are best optimized for consoles are always the exclusives financed by the platform holders themselves. And they do tend to look very good. See Halo 4 for an example. I don't know exactly what the level of optimization they are getting out of their X1900 and slow in order triple core but it looks like wayyyy more then 40%. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)



Games like halo 4 are actually the worst kinds of comparisons because you actually well.... can't compare them to anything due to their exclusivity. Multi platform games that you can actually go by here.

I could just as well say that the consoles haven't had a game with as much models as the original shogun total war and that PCs are extremely optimized because of this. Unfortunately the comparison is extremely flawed due to the exclusive nature of shogun.
Edited by Alatar - 9/24/12 at 4:06pm
 
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post #62 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Unfortunately the sad truth is that 'whining' is what really works in this industry. I don't see why anyone would be annoyed by it, if you enjoy a product then nothing's stopping you from enjoying it. Other people whining and complaining should not affect your enjoyment. They're fully entitled to their opinion and expressing it in places that allow it.
Another funny thing about the Dark souls poll is that people always say how From software told us that they had no experience. Well I dunno about you guys but I was among the tens and tens of thousands of people that actually signed the petition before we heard anything from From. What I expected was the most basic industry standards for the PC.
Also we haven't been getting more crappy games with extreme eye candy. That's just what the AAA gaming industry's marketing machine puts out. Especially the PC market is getting better and more products than ever but people are still mainly fixated on the big marketing campaigns and money milking sequels.
Most of us should just stop dwelling over the AAA industry and let them have their mass market appeal. Those games aren't made with us in mind.
Games like halo 4 are actually the worst kinds of comparisons because you actually well.... can't compare them to anything due to their exclusivity. Multi platform games that you can actually go by here.
I could just as well say that the consoles haven't had a game with as much models as the original shogun total war and that PCs are extremely optimized because of this. Unfortunately the comparison is extremely flawed due to the exclusive nature of shogun.

Well I'm not saying it's a fair comparison I'm just saying calling Battlefield 3 the most you can get out of a console or any other multiplat is disingenous.

The best looking game on any console ever has been an exclusive. It's just the way of the world.

And my point with the multi-plats is they are a bad example precisely because they aren't optimized to a consoles fullest potential. Can't do it when you have to spread resources around to three or four different builds. Reality is that there is no great comparison I guess.
Quote:
Also we haven't been getting more crappy games with extreme eye candy. That's just what the AAA gaming industry's marketing machine puts out. Especially the PC market is getting better and more products than ever but people are still mainly fixated on the big marketing campaigns and money milking sequels.

Most of us should just stop dwelling over the AAA industry and let them have their mass market appeal. Those games aren't made with us in mind.

AAA gaming is what drives most of us to build these rigs we do. It's estimated BF3 pushed over a billion dollars in PC hardware sales before release. People on both console and PC always complain about it but the fact of the matter is we wouldn't care without it. Big budget beautiful games are what drives us.

I'm not saying new IPs shouldn't be pursued and I think you'd find most publishers feel the same way. Where I work it's a huge priority. The issue is that it becomes more and more difficult to introduce succesful IP late in the console cycle. Sucks for the PC only guy or really for everybody but pubs finance what is viable and timing is just as important as whether or not it's a good idea.

Whenever this discussion comes up I always think of what happened with DICE. Constantly criticized for being a shooter factory yet not three years ago they put out one of the most innovative and best looking games and it totally flopped. If people want new franchises and quirky experiences support games like Mirror's Edge because it's not often a company like EA totally goes out on a limb on a big budget free running game with a developer thats made them millions doing the same game six times over.


Oh and all you guys who complain about retreads constantly being pushed out in AAA gaming. Make sure you go buy Dishonored this year. Vote with your wallet. Only way to make it happen.
Edited by jtom320 - 9/24/12 at 8:44pm
    
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post #63 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

Well I'm not saying it's a fair comparison I'm just saying calling Battlefield 3 the most you can get out of a console or any other multiplat is disingenous.
The best looking game on any console ever has been an exclusive. It's just the way of the world.
And my point with the multi-plats is they are a bad example precisely because they aren't optimized to a consoles fullest potential. Can't do it when you have to spread resources around to three or four different builds. Reality is that there is no great comparison I guess.

Multi plats aren't optimized for the PC either. That's exactly why they're the best thing to use in comparisons. And multi platform games have never been the best looking or technically most impressive PC titles either. It works both ways. But unfortunately you can't compare two completely different games and say that one of them has objectively better graphics. It just doesn't work like that.
Quote:
AAA gaming is what drives most of us to build these rigs we do. It's estimated BF3 pushed over a billion dollars in PC hardware sales before release. People on both console and PC always complain about it but the fact of the matter is we wouldn't care without it. Big budget beautiful games are what drives us.

First of all, that billion dollars of hardware sales is complete crap. During the first week of sales BF3 shipped 5 million copies across all platforms. Knowing the marketing it had behind it I would guess that we're lucky if PC got more than one third of those copies + all the digital sales.

Now in order to even reach exactly one billion dollars of PC hardware a million users would have had to buy 1000$ worth of hardware. When you begin to realize that most users don't have computers that cost that and that over half the PC users would have had to upgrade their stuff for over 1000$ much you'll also begin to realize that the figure is complete garbage.

Also speak for yourself when you say that AAA sales are what drive us to upgrade and stuff.

Most of the PC market even would disagree with you. PC exclusives like MMOs, RTSs, MOBA games are what are the most popular stuff on PC with BF3 representing the only really popular AAA shooter. The huge streaming scene etc. couldn't care less for console AAA stuff.

I don't care about BF3, crysis 3/2 or any of that. I'd much rather upgrade for much better looking games such as project CARS that at the moment makes my PC scream for mercy and is being developed for PC first.

This is what it looks like (completely in game shot from my PC):



Thank god for PC-first development. Better graphics in game than GT5's photo mode, yes please. Also the possibility to affect development, play different versions and pay different amounts. The wonders of PC-first non AAA development.
Quote:
I'm not saying new IPs shouldn't be pursued and I think you'd find most publishers feel the same way. Where I work it's a huge priority. The issue is that it becomes more and more difficult to introduce succesful IP late in the console cycle. Sucks for the PC only guy or really for everybody but pubs finance what is viable and timing is just as important as whether or not it's a good idea.

And this is why I don't care and neither should anyone who thinks that PC games aren't what they used to be and wants better stuff. It's out there but looking at the AAA market is just going to get you disappointed and milked.

I don't care about new IP being difficult to introduce, that's not my problem. I'm a consumer that buys products.
Quote:
Whenever this discussion comes up I always think of what happened with DICE. Constantly criticized for being a shooter factory yet not three years ago they put out one of the most innovative and best looking games and it totally flopped. If people want new franchises and quirky experiences support games like Mirror's Edge because it's not often a company like EA totally goes out on a limb on a big budget free running game with a developer thats made them millions doing the same game six times over.

I bought Mirror's edge and I loved it. It's not my fault that it didn't get the marketing and sales. I will buy the occasional innovative and good looking game that comes out because I wish to support stuff like that.

I will also continue to be critical against DICE because they sold out to EA and because of that are in for a slow death as a FPS studio that will churn out games with more and more marketing and more and more money grubbing ploys until even the most casual gamer isn't fooled by the marketing and doesn't buy it. At that point I can stop the critique because EA will pull the plug on the studio or the lead guys will leave.

Just take a look at bioware, pandemic etc. These guys actually made good games until their products because too popular for the publishers to ignore the endless milking possibilities.
Quote:
Oh and all you guys who complain about retreads constantly being pushed out in AAA gaming. Make sure you go buy Dishonored this year. Vote with your wallet. Only way to make it happen.

Unfortunately voting with your wallet very rarely works because the people who even think about stuff like that are a definite minority. If an AAA game doesn't get marketed well it won't sell well and my money wont make a difference.

As for dishonored, I'm still undecided, will have to check out more gameplay and maybe even the early review or two before buying.
Edited by Alatar - 9/25/12 at 6:57am
 
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post #64 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by AznDud333 View Post

at least its a dx11 chip

Yeah but they probably won't use that.
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post #65 of 91
Alatar your post is way too long but I like the discussion will be back to respond later.
    
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post #66 of 91
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Originally Posted by jtom320 View Post

Alatar your post is way too long but I like the discussion will be back to respond later.

Np, took me 10 hours to respond as well tongue.gif

(also it's not often that someone calls my post too long haha)
 
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post #67 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eduardv View Post

This is a prelude of the end of PC Gaming?

 

 

Nope... the entire ecosytem of gaming will come down to "WHERE" at the moment u want to game. Not on what device.(As anyone with Windows8 + virtualization cpu has an Xbox.) 

 

No difference here^... PC gaming is superior and the whole industry is taking notice. So consol manufactuers are chasing.


Edited by formula m - 9/25/12 at 9:05am
post #68 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Np, took me 10 hours to respond as well tongue.gif
(also it's not often that someone calls my post too long haha)

You just got me to check out Project Cars. Thanks!
post #69 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hukkel View Post

Nintendo has already conformed they are using 1 GB system RAM and 1 GB video RAM.

It's 1GB system RAM as in for the OS and apps, then another 1GB for games using a UMA like the 360, meaning graphical and non-graphical tasks have to fit in there.
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post #70 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isseicakes View Post

It's 1GB system RAM as in for the OS and apps, then another 1GB for games using a UMA like the 360, meaning graphical and non-graphical tasks have to fit in there.

Thats still twice as much as what the 360 and PS3 have.
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