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[TheRegister]Apple begs ex-Google bods to fix crap maps app - Page 7

post #61 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

Thry bight TomTom data.
I know.... they need the algorithms as well.
What?
post #62 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

Thry bight TomTom data.
I know.... they need the algorithms as well.
What?

Algorithms, to allow them to actually use the data in a useful way, like route calculation.
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post #63 of 91
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

I know, Google is like second to Valve in BEST WORKPLACE EVAH award.

I'd pit Google above Valve.
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post #64 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

I know, Google is like second to Valve in BEST WORKPLACE EVAH award.

I'd pit Google above Valve.

Depends on what you're working on, there's a Google in Boulder that some people I know work at, they're really not all that excited about their jobs. It's pretty nice and has good benefits and pay, but part of loving your job is loving what you get to work on, I'm willing to be Valve is much more exciting to work for.
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post #65 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

I'd pit Google above Valve.

i wanna work there...where do i sign on the dotted line.
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post #66 of 91
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3930K View Post

I know, Google is like second to Valve in BEST WORKPLACE EVAH award.

I'd pit Google above Valve.

Depends on what you're working on, there's a Google in Boulder that some people I know work at, they're really not all that excited about their jobs. It's pretty nice and has good benefits and pay, but part of loving your job is loving what you get to work on, I'm willing to be Valve is much more exciting to work for.

You're right, it'll all end up depending on your position, and location. I'm sure Google in CO isn't anywhere near the same as their "Godly" Googleplex in CA. I have great appreciation of the Source engine and could only imagine what it would feel like being among the team behind it all :O
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post #67 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylepdalton View Post

Sorry not meaning to ruffle any feathers in this thread but there are a few things here than I can raise an eyebrow at and I would like to share my knowledge. Apples current mapping technology isn't all that different from Googles or Microsofts offerings. The problem is and always has been content delivery. Some of you are pointing to Google having a seven year upper hand at this. Try doubling that number and Microsoft has been at it just as long as well in various forms. Apple in name is new at this but the people they have been working with are not.

I will admit they over extended themselves trying to get a 3D product to market but that product really isn't that different from Google or Microsoft. They rushed it to a mobile platform and it is different from what people expected. The reality is no one has the capability to offer augmented reality information on a mapping product and that is what they were going for. As Steelbom mentioned adding vector data will help but vectors are difficult to work with in a 3D space if they choose to continue with that sole venture.

Another point is content availability at the moment. Apple has the cash to lease whatever data they need from whomever they need. Where the idea that Google owns the content in their maps came from I have no idea, but they don't. 90% percent of the information you see in Google maps is not from Google and anyone with time and money can get the same information. Even you in fact can get data at much higher resolution than what is shown on Google maps. Google does own most of the Streetview data but even some of that is supplemented from other sources. Microsoft in fact has their own product as well that I feel is much stronger but that is neither here nor there.

In the end Apple will have a usable product by the end of the year but it will be slightly different from what most are used to. High resolution imagery will be showing up more and more from Apple. The only imagery you will not likely see are Geo-Eye images but the rules on that are fuzzy due to it being a joint venture between Google and the NGA, everything else is free and or fair game for purchase.

As a side note the particular types of software engineers or programmers are going to be GIS/Mapping specialists and those can make some pretty high demands as they are few and far between (I been on the receiving end of a Google offer.)
I was curious what you mean by this? Flyover is all about vectors and 3D. The low quality 2D maps we see will end up all being replaced by vectors.
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post #68 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

I was curious what you mean by this? Flyover is all about vectors and 3D. The low quality 2D maps we see will end up all being replaced by vectors.

Sorry I will clarify. There are only two ways to represent space in a map through vectors or rasters. Vector information in a cartographic sense are points, lines, or polygons. They are technically 2D features. A fully vector map would look like a Garmin Nuvi type map with no pictures just points, lines, and polygons. The transition to a 3D object and map space is difficult to do for a two fold reason. Most people have difficulty in processing 3D information in a 2D workspace like a map when the information isn't rasterized or photorealistic. Some simply have difficulty in object recognition unless it is somehow transformed.

The second reason it is difficult is the information collection. To create a 3D map of a small area is simple enough with planned data collection. To do small scale mapping (meaning covering large areas in low detail) with data from different sources becomes very complicated. Issues arise from differing scales, different coordinate systems or origins, and the ability to combine those things. Things simply don't line up correctly and it takes quite a bit of work to make it line up. Planimeteric vectors such as roads were never intended to become 3D so when you stretch them to fit a 3d surface it becomes distorted. Even imagery when lain over a 3D surface surface do the same (think about the odd looking bridges we see). We do a process to correct that with geometric and orthographic transformations but there is a limit to what can be done.

The end goal of most maps and virtual globes is to eventually be a 3D representation of the world. Apple, Google, Microsoft, ESRI, Intergraph, Hexagon, etc... are all shooting for this goal. As of now there simply isn't enough high resolution information collected to pull it off. Unfortunately even Apple doesn't have enough money to pull it off. Although I hope they throw a lot of money at it because if I ever decide to leave the academic research world there will be some great paying jobs in the industry.

I hope I was able to clarify myself in a another wall of text. I should really be working on my dissertation. rolleyes.gif maybe later.biggrin.gif
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post #69 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylepdalton View Post

Sorry I will clarify. There are only two ways to represent space in a map through vectors or rasters. Vector information in a cartographic sense are points, lines, or polygons. They are technically 2D features. A fully vector map would look like a Garmin Nuvi type map with no pictures just points, lines, and polygons. The transition to a 3D object and map space is difficult to do for a two fold reason. Most people have difficulty in processing 3D information in a 2D workspace like a map when the information isn't rasterized or photorealistic. Some simply have difficulty in object recognition unless it is somehow transformed.

The second reason it is difficult is the information collection. To create a 3D map of a small area is simple enough with planned data collection. To do small scale mapping (meaning covering large areas in low detail) with data from different sources becomes very complicated. Issues arise from differing scales, different coordinate systems or origins, and the ability to combine those things. Things simply don't line up correctly and it takes quite a bit of work to make it line up. Planimeteric vectors such as roads were never intended to become 3D so when you stretch them to fit a 3d surface it becomes distorted. Even imagery when lain over a 3D surface surface do the same (think about the odd looking bridges we see). We do a process to correct that with geometric and orthographic transformations but there is a limit to what can be done.

The end goal of most maps and virtual globes is to eventually be a 3D representation of the world. Apple, Google, Microsoft, ESRI, Intergraph, Hexagon, etc... are all shooting for this goal. As of now there simply isn't enough high resolution information collected to pull it off. Unfortunately even Apple doesn't have enough money to pull it off. Although I hope they throw a lot of money at it because if I ever decide to leave the academic research world there will be some great paying jobs in the industry.

I hope I was able to clarify myself in a another wall of text. I should really be working on my dissertation. rolleyes.gif maybe later.biggrin.gif
Oi Vei! Tis' a bit all over my head but interesting nonetheless. Thanks for that!

The imagery they're using for Flyover seems a lot different than the 2D maps they're using. I think I remember C3 technologies was doing this sort of stuff... perhaps the imagery is their own?
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post #70 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

Oi Vei! Tis' a bit all over my head but interesting nonetheless. Thanks for that!
The imagery they're using for Flyover seems a lot different than the 2D maps they're using. I think I remember C3 technologies was doing this sort of stuff... perhaps the imagery is their own?

You are correct C3 Technologies is doing just that for Apple. The way they are doing it is through a photogrammetric method. Over lapping images taken from 2 or more vantage points can generate a 3D surface. Problem is to get a good model you need high resolution imagery with sufficient over lap. This is both very expensive and time consuming. Not mention flying in urban areas is tricky to impossible to prevent buildings covering one another. I don't think C3 does the image collection themselves so you are looking at another party to collect the data once again.

Funnily enough Microsoft has both Google and Apple beat when it comes to this type of information as they work with the largest provider in the US for these types of imagery. (Pictometry is the company) Apple made a play to buy the company but I doubt they would ever sell out and I think their license agreement prevents them from leasing that information as well. Yet another reason you don't see that quality of data on Google products either. I love this kind of stuff. I've been in GIS/RS/Photogrammetry world for the past 8 years or so and as you can see I could go on and on about it. biggrin.gif
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LG Blu-ray Corsair H80 Windows 7 Professional Asus VE248H x3 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech MX 5500 Revolution Black Thermaltake TR2 RX 750w CoolerMaster Storm Scout MX Revolution Cordless Laser Mouse 
AudioAudio
Logitech X-540 5.1 System Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 2670QM G53SX NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560M Samsung  
RAMRAMRAMHard Drive
Corsair  Samsung  Corsair  Corsair Force GT3 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Hitachi Blu-Ray Drive Windows 7 Professional 15.4" 1080p 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX 8120 Asus M5A99FX Pro R2.0 MSI Windforce 6850 Kingston Hyper-Blue 16Gb 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
3x Seagate Barracuda 3Tb OCZ Agility 2 64Gb 3x OCZ Vertex 2 Plus 32 Gb Cooler Master Seidon 120mm 
OSOSPowerCase
Windows Server 2012 Standard VMs (Server 2012, Windows 7, Windows 8, Ubuntu,... PC Power and Cooling 500w Silencer NXZT Switch 810 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [TheRegister]Apple begs ex-Google bods to fix crap maps app