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Need to shave off a few more C degress with water cooling upgrades, need opinions please :)

post #1 of 61
Thread Starter 
Hello,

I am trying to overclock my 3770K past 4.8GHz, it seems very well capable voltage wise, however the under load temperatures are getting out of control at 4.9GHz already. My goal is to hit 5GHz and stabilize it there for benchmarking purposes (not a daily overclock!).

Please keep in mind that de-lidding the chip (for TIM replacement) or lapping it is not an option, I want to keep Intel warranty on it, might need it some day wink.gif

Here is my current water cooling setup as is, order of components is same as the flow in my loop:
1. FrozenQ LF V2 160mm reservoir
2. Koolance PMP-450S water pump, currently running at 12V (equivalent to PMP-450 running at vario setting 4 I believe) <- capable of 24V upgrade
3. XSPC EX360 Crossflow radiator mounted inside case (intake area) with 3x Scythe S-Flex 1,900rpm fans acting as pull <- capable of upgrading to push & pull config
4. XSPC Raystorm CPU block with ICD TIM on 3770K
5. XSPC RX240 radiator mounted externally (behind exhaust) with 2x Scythe S-Flex 1,900rpm fans acting as pull <- capable of upgrading to push & pull config
6. XSPC Razor GTX 670 block
7. back to reservoir

I am not looking to completely rebuild my loop here, I just did that coming from a Dual Bay X2O 750 pump/res combo, a single RX240 rad and Raystorm block to what I have now. It was a great improvement and all, but I need to further shave off a few Celsius degrees from CPU temps under load.
By looking at above specs, you can see I marked 3 potential places of upgrade (adding more fans to rads and supplying 24V power to pump).

I'd like to know what improvements to expect when upgrading each of those listed options, 1-2C degrees for each (could be enough for what I'm aiming at) or rather 2-3C tops at most with everything?

According to MartinsLiquidLabs Rad & Pump Optimizer spreadsheet (template link here) my current setup shows around a 1.1GPM flow and around 3.4psi of pressure.
Adding a 24V converter to my D5 Strong pump ($40 upgrade) would improve those specs to 1.7GPM flow and around 6.6psi of pressure - is it worth it?

Adding more fans to rads (push-pull) will be noisier, but I have them running off the fan controller, so it doesn't bother me as long as it shaves off some more temps helping to dissipate heat more efficiently, worth it?

Other than that I can only turn my room AC on and lower ambient temps in order to lower the relative CPU temps, but that's only another 2-3C degrees wink.gif and I need a total of 10C at least biggrin.gif

Here my current 3770K OC's temperatures/vcore at 4.6-4.9GHz overclocks (hope it helps to see the big picture here):
a) 4.6GHz with 1.225v vcore and Ultra High LLC, IBT 2.54 produces temps under full load (4x4GB RAM @ 2200MHz used) around 79C tops on hottest core after a few rounds
b) 4.7GHz with 1.275v vcore and Ultra High LLC, IBT 2.54 produces temps under full load (4x4GB RAM @ 2200MHz used) around 91C tops on hottest core after a few rounds
c) 4.8GHz with 1.325v vcore and Ultra High LLC, IBT 2.54 produces temps under full load (4x4GB RAM @ 2200MHz used) around 98C tops on hottest core after a few rounds
d) 4.9GHz with 1.400v vcore and Ultra High LLC, IBT 2.54 produces temps under full load (4x4GB RAM @ 2200MHz used) around 105C tops on hottest core (thermal throttling occurs during 1st round)

Notes:
-Mind those are full load temps with Intel Burn Test 2.54 in Maximum Stress mode using nearly all available memory. With IBT Standard mode each of those vcore settings can be lowered a bit and of course the resultant max temps also get around 5-6C lower.
-My room ambient (by computer) is around 24-26C nowadays.
-Ultra High LLC corresponds to around 75% Vdroop Control (while Extreme LLC reefers to 100% Vdroop control aka "Vdroop disabled")

Thanks for your valuable input! thumb.gif
post #2 of 61
have you ever thought about delidding? i've seen some numbers go that low.
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post #3 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdr09 View Post

have you ever thought about delidding? i've seen some numbers go that low.

yes, I did biggrin.gif
it seems like it is a 50/50 chance depending on luck and skill during delidding, sometimes chips get damaged and destroyed in process.
Gains I found were anywhere from -7C up to -20C under load ... but considered the risk and warranty void, I decided I want to keep the Intel warranty (I have overclocking plan expansion on it too).

not going this way.
post #4 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdr09 View Post

have you ever thought about delidding? i've seen some numbers go that low.

He said he doesnt want to delid. I think increasing the flow would only help a little bit, increased flow helps more when you have low flow to start with from what I understand and you're fine there I think. Quick question on that though where do you get the 24v converter?

I think push pull upgrades would probably by themselves get you your needed temp decrease.
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post #5 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdr09 View Post

have you ever thought about delidding? i've seen some numbers go that low.

^ Didn't read the op


What is your current water to ambient delta? Depending on where that is you may be chasing your tail trying to get lower temps. (Your water cannot go below the ambient temperature of your room) If you already have a very low delta your only option is to lower the room temp or add some alternative type of cooling.
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post #6 of 61
ice cubes. ice cubes everywhere
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post #7 of 61
my bad - i missed the 2nd paragraph. i say a combination of lowering your ambient temp, increasing the flow, and using the best thermal paste available.
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post #8 of 61
Maybe stick the rads in a bucket then fill the bucket with ice? I have seen that work before.
    
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post #9 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomTaco View Post

He said he doesnt want to delid. I think increasing the flow would only help a little bit, increased flow helps more when you have low flow to start with from what I understand and you're fine there I think. Quick question on that though where do you get the 24v converter?
I think push pull upgrades would probably by themselves get you your needed temp decrease.
biggrin.gif 24V Koolance converter for PMP-450S, here you go:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&manufacturers_id=102&products_id=28110
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/koc24vpuco.html (out of stock currently)

I am also leaning toward trying the push-pull fans first, that should help especially on the EX360 rad, probably not so much for RX240 (low FPI).
However I think it might be worth trying to increase the pump flow/pressure too, just don't know what kind of benefit I should expect in water to ambient delta (if any).

Quote:
Originally Posted by silvrr View Post

^ Didn't read the op
What is your current water to ambient delta? Depending on where that is you may be chasing your tail trying to get lower temps. (Your water cannot go below the ambient temperature of your room) If you already have a very low delta your only option is to lower the room temp or add some alternative type of cooling.
Judging by the GPU block temps (at idle downclocked) it is around 4-5C delta to ambient, it does get worse when benchmarking CPU under full load (reaching maybe 8-9C delta), hence I was thinking that increasing the flow and pressure could aid it, perhaps?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruflot View Post

ice cubes. ice cubes everywhere
hehehe, yeah that's a thought, but I don't want to have to remove the rad and throw it into an ice bucket every time I want some extreme benchmarking biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdr09 View Post

my bad - i missed the 2nd paragraph. i say a combination of lowering your ambient temp, increasing the flow, and using the best thermal paste available.
I tend to agree. The thermal paste won't get any better than it is already - I am already using IC Diamond and I do not feel comfortable with using silver/metal TIMs, I prefer non-conductive solutions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TA4K View Post

Maybe stick the rads in a bucket then fill the bucket with ice? I have seen that work before.
it's a nice idea (as I said to other member suggesting ice cubes), but I don't want to remove rads, extending hoses and placing rads in buckets every time I want to benchmark biggrin.gif
I want to keep it as clean and neat as possible.
post #10 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by feniks View Post

Judging by the GPU block temps (at idle downclocked) it is around 4-5C delta to ambient, it does get worse when benchmarking CPU under full load (reaching maybe 8-9C delta), hence I was thinking that increasing the flow and pressure could aid it, perhaps?

I would check the actual delta, if you don't already have a thermometer its a cheap way to avoid unnecessary upgrades. I have a multimeter that has a temp. probe, cost me all of $25 bucks I think and comes in pretty handy for both electrical use and temp checks. Your GPU temps are not an accurate way to measure the delta, the GPU is making its own heat and only being cooled by the water.

Again unless you have a large ambient to water delta taking a few degrees off your water temp with expensive upgrades won't get you that much change in CPU temps.
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