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[Inquirer] AMD sticks with Socket AM3+ for Steamroller, FM2 to get three years - Page 14

post #131 of 216
yhay for me! kinda makes me happy I built this vishera rig
post #132 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Yet the difference between a Q6600 G0 at 3.8Ghz and a E8500/E8400 at 4.5Ghz in modern gaming will have the Q6600 on top, I owned a E8300 and a Gigabyte P43 that couldn't get above 400FSB, was a great PC but dual cores are just too damn slow these days, even the latest Pentium dual cores struggle, you really do need HT.
yeah, HT , making a bad situation worse.
post #133 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Yet the difference between a Q6600 G0 at 3.8Ghz and a E8500/E8400 at 4.5Ghz in modern gaming will have the Q6600 on top, I owned a E8300 and a Gigabyte P43 that couldn't get above 400FSB, was a great PC but dual cores are just too damn slow these days, even the latest Pentium dual cores struggle, you really do need HT.
yeah, HT , making a bad situation worse.

Yeah..No.

HT has improved a lot since the P4 days, these days it generally improves performance bar a few synthetic benchmarks/stress tests, the difference between a 3770k and 3570k is virtually nil at the same clock speeds, but once games start using more than 4 cores effectively the FX-81*0s, FX-83*0s, 2600k/2700k and 3770k are going to pull ahead of the i5s, etc.

Think of it like this, an i5 3570k will give you roughly the same performance in 5 years as it does now, maybe a bit higher, but a 3770k or FX-8**0 will only improve as games use more threads. (Which they will, as graphics are getting harder and harder to improve, devs are going to move to using physics and great AI to show off now)

I really can foresee the CPU becoming the major limitation by the end of the PS5s lifetime, assuming that we hit 4K and don't increase TV resolutions higher.
    
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post #134 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Yeah..No.
HT has improved a lot since the P4 days, these days it generally improves performance bar a few synthetic benchmarks/stress tests, the difference between a 3770k and 3570k is virtually nil at the same clock speeds, but once games start using more than 4 cores effectively the FX-81*0s, FX-83*0s, 2600k/2700k and 3770k are going to pull ahead of the i5s, etc.
Think of it like this, an i5 3570k will give you roughly the same performance in 5 years as it does now, maybe a bit higher, but a 3770k or FX-8**0 will only improve as games use more threads. (Which they will, as graphics are getting harder and harder to improve, devs are going to move to using physics and great AI to show off now)
I really can foresee the CPU becoming the major limitation by the end of the PS5s lifetime, assuming that we hit 4K and don't increase TV resolutions higher.
HT only helps if your code is inefficient, so if the CPU has a 4 issue per cycle design, and the code barely manages 2 issue per cycle, you have half the pipeline available. If you want to see real fun, use 4 issue per cycle code, and turn on ht and watch the cpu get all kind of cranky.
post #135 of 216
But isn't the socket holding them back? Backwards compatibility is nice but not at the cost of competitive performance.

Now I feel like SR is going to be an incremental step up, nothing more.
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post #136 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge Of Pain View Post

But isn't the socket holding them back? Backwards compatibility is nice but not at the cost of competitive performance.
Now I feel like SR is going to be an incremental step up, nothing more.

the chipset isn't really a issue, more or less pcie cards have more bandwidth then they can use now in single cardconfigurations. they will have to integrate north and south bridges into the cpu for pcie 3&4 to get any real bandwidth gains, that will likely happen after steamroller. the socket itself, being pin grid array, isn't a problem either.
post #137 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz 
But there's still no bottleneck on the CPU, think of it like running a production line, lets say step C is the bottleneck by far (ie. The GPU), you can speed up Step A (The CPU) to increase total speed, but it isn't really bottlenecking everything else, it will still improve performance though. A bottleneck is when your system performance is constrained by something, you can still get performance benefits by improving other areas but they won't show up as much as the bottleneck, and the more you improve it the less you see thanks to diminishing gains.
Yes, but at what point do you call it a bottleneck? It's such an ambiguous term, hence my rant.
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post #138 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Yeah..No.
HT has improved a lot since the P4 days, these days it generally improves performance bar a few synthetic benchmarks/stress tests, the difference between a 3770k and 3570k is virtually nil at the same clock speeds, but once games start using more than 4 cores effectively the FX-81*0s, FX-83*0s, 2600k/2700k and 3770k are going to pull ahead of the i5s, etc.
Think of it like this, an i5 3570k will give you roughly the same performance in 5 years as it does now, maybe a bit higher, but a 3770k or FX-8**0 will only improve as games use more threads. (Which they will, as graphics are getting harder and harder to improve, devs are going to move to using physics and great AI to show off now)
I really can foresee the CPU becoming the major limitation by the end of the PS5s lifetime, assuming that we hit 4K and don't increase TV resolutions higher.
HT only helps if your code is inefficient, so if the CPU has a 4 issue per cycle design, and the code barely manages 2 issue per cycle, you have half the pipeline available. If you want to see real fun, use 4 issue per cycle code, and turn on ht and watch the cpu get all kind of cranky.

And how many programs in reality do that?

Out of curiosity, also, does it affect the BD CMT style as much?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge Of Pain View Post

But isn't the socket holding them back? Backwards compatibility is nice but not at the cost of competitive performance.
Now I feel like SR is going to be an incremental step up, nothing more.

the chipset isn't really a issue, more or less pcie cards have more bandwidth then they can use now in single cardconfigurations. they will have to integrate north and south bridges into the cpu for pcie 3&4 to get any real bandwidth gains, that will likely happen after steamroller. the socket itself, being pin grid array, isn't a problem either.

It is, kind of, there's a chipset limitation which lowers multi-GPU performance, but it's not going to affect single GPU performance much at all.
    
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post #139 of 216
They really need a new socket. It seems as they are getting nowhere with all the CPUs that they have released recently.
post #140 of 216
Releasing a socket with no improvements in the architecture serves no purpose. AMD will switch to quad channel memory but not before it's a necessity, the memory doesn't bottlenecks the CPU's and Intel have proven that bar benchmark numbers there's no difference between dual, triple and quad channel RAM.

The problems AMD have with SLI is due to the north bridge and their PCI-E configuration, rather than the CPU. A dual GPU card isn't bottlenecked by the FX8350 (slightly by the 8150).

And what Brutuz is saying about cores is totally correct. Currently you are better off with a slower quad core than a super fast dual core, which is why quite a few games have quad cores as recommended and faster dual cores as minimum requirements.
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