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[Inquirer] AMD sticks with Socket AM3+ for Steamroller, FM2 to get three years - Page 8

post #71 of 216
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Originally Posted by Dromihetes View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licht View Post

This is really good news for the folks who bought into the wonderful little FX4170 for example. Or the poor suckers who bought FX8s for gaming.

So why are not FX8s good enough for gaming ?!
Can you elaborate a little .

They're great for gaming, just not really much (If any) better than the FX-4170 and represent much worse bang for buck, simply because a 3570k isn't much more.
    
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post #72 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

I'm a bit disappointed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendo Maniac 64 View Post

Here's a theory - after Steamroller AMD's going APU only. With things like HSA, this does make sense.

With HSA, an 8 core APU with something like 640 GCN cores sounds really nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAD_J View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbroad77 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy View Post

Maybe because amd cant afford the research and development of new chipsets and socket revisions aswell as new cpu architecture???

Lol, like it really costs anything to add or remove a pin from a socket (cough Intel). I mean the CPUs are planned out years in advance, so for example why not add features to LGA 1156 knowing well that 1155 will use said features?

I think intel has used less sockets than amd? Maybe im having a fever dream but I remember finding that out one day and being shocked.

Past 10 years:

Intel: 478, 775, 1156, 1366, 1155, 2011
AMD: A, 754, 939, AM2, AM2+, AM3, AM3+, FM1

Now, here's the difference.

A lot of boards will accept AM3 and AM3+ CPUs. A lot of boards will accept AM2 and AM2+ CPUs. A lot of boards will even accept AM2 through AM3. Some will even accept AM2 through AM3+.

There's no chance of getting a 478 in a 775, a 775 in a 1156, etc.

Good point. I'd still be stuck on an AM2 system if it weren't for the affordability to upgrade. I started off with an AM2 chip and AM2/AM2+ motherboard that I got for a $50 open box combo deal. Later got a dual core AM2+ chip. Then got a AM2+/AM3 board. Then I was given an AM3 chip. Now I'm upgrading to an AM3/AM3+ board for better overclocking which also now means that later I'll be able to upgrade to an AM3+ chip.

And I still have most of those previous pieces which meant I was able to build other systems for other smaller tasks.
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post #73 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Also, considering the SB-e at 4.8Ghz is still only hitting 90% GPU usage that means it's bottlenecking a HD6990.
I think you're using the term "bottleneck" way too liberally here...

No matter how fast your system is there will always be performance limiters based on your task. Being CPU bound in a game that's running well over 60fps with over 90% gpu usage is not a bottleneck.
post #74 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booty Warrior View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Also, considering the SB-e at 4.8Ghz is still only hitting 90% GPU usage that means it's bottlenecking a HD6990.
I think you're using the term "bottleneck" way too liberally here...

No matter how fast your system is there will always be performance limiters based on your task. Being CPU bound in a game that's running well over 60fps with over 90% gpu usage is not a bottleneck.

Actually, it is, some games won't bottleneck on a FX-8150 with a HD6990 but most will, some games will bottleneck on an SB-e but most won't, it's like IPC in that it varies dramatically application to application, for example my CPU bottlenecks my GTX 470 when I play MInecraft but not when I play Skyrim (With all of the texture and shader mods I run, which make the load on the GPU much higher than stock and make it a GPU limited game), being the bottleneck simply means it's slowing the rest of the system down by a noticeable margin in that particular load.

Another great example is The Sims 3, my HDD was bottlenecking that, I moved it to my SSD and now my CPU bottlenecks it, not by much (GPU usage sits around 95% usually but goes up and down, while my CPU is at 100% on the cores being used) but its still a bottleneck.
    
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post #75 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy View Post

Maybe because amd cant afford the research and development of new chipsets and socket revisions aswell as new cpu architecture???

No.

The chipset and socket have nothing to do with each other. Also, the engineering involved in changing a socket is trivial, relative to many other things.

The only reason for AMD to keep the AM3+ socket is to hold on to what market share they have by providing easier upgrade options. They could easily produce a new LGA socket with superior electrical characteristics, or adapt one of the ones they already have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbroad77 View Post

Lol, like it really costs anything to add or remove a pin from a socket (cough Intel). I mean the CPUs are planned out years in advance, so for example why not add features to LGA 1156 knowing well that 1155 will use said features?

Because CPUs are planned out years in advance and features of one generation are not finalized before those of the preceding generation, even if the release of the former follows the design of the later.

Anyway, LGA-1155 is not LGA-1156 with a missing pin; there was significant reorganization. This isn't to say that Intel could not have made sandy and ivy compatible with LGA-1156, but the differences aren't as trivial as you imply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAD_J View Post

I think intel has used less sockets than amd? Maybe im having a fever dream but I remember finding that out one day and being shocked.

They are pretty close, as far as consumer sockets are concerned.

Since I've been building my own systems (the mid 90s), there have been a dozen Intel consumer sockets released, and either 12 or 14 AMD consumer sockets (AMD CPUs used to be drop in replacements for Intel parts and used the same socket).
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post #76 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Actually, it is, some games won't bottleneck on a FX-8150 with a HD6990 but most will, some games will bottleneck on an SB-e but most won't, it's like IPC in that it varies dramatically application to application, for example my CPU bottlenecks my GTX 470 when I play MInecraft but not when I play Skyrim (With all of the texture and shader mods I run, which make the load on the GPU much higher than stock and make it a GPU limited game),
Being CPU, GPU or memory limited is not the same thing as being bottlenecked...
Quote:
being the bottleneck simply means it's slowing the rest of the system down by a noticeable margin in that particular load.
Which is exactly the opposite of what the linked benchmark shows (with regard to SB-E).
post #77 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

Maybe they gave up investing so much money into the CPU only portion of their business to dump more money into APUs / GPU. There hasn't been much improvement in CPU compared to how much APUs and GPUs are cranking up every generation (and that's not just AMD, Intel also). For example, HD 8xxx is supposedly 35% faster for midrange.
AMD has their parallel / stream processing sorted out, but for CPUs (non-server) single thread is still more important.
edit: I'd much rather have AMD produce major fixes than a new board every 1-2 years. Optimization would be more cost effective and better for buyers (CPU vs CPU+mobo from Intel will always be an easier purchase and upgrade, plus OS locks to motherboard).

What a complete croc, todays cpu's have excessive IPC for the software they run, the only time this isn't true, is when your talking synthetic benchmarks of HPC type applications, and most of those scale over multiple cores just fine.
post #78 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booty Warrior View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Actually, it is, some games won't bottleneck on a FX-8150 with a HD6990 but most will, some games will bottleneck on an SB-e but most won't, it's like IPC in that it varies dramatically application to application, for example my CPU bottlenecks my GTX 470 when I play MInecraft but not when I play Skyrim (With all of the texture and shader mods I run, which make the load on the GPU much higher than stock and make it a GPU limited game),
Being CPU, GPU or memory limited is not the same thing as being bottlenecked...
Quote:
being the bottleneck simply means it's slowing the rest of the system down by a noticeable margin in that particular load.
Which is exactly the opposite of what the linked benchmark shows (with regard to SB-E).

Look at some where the HD6990 is way under even 95% GPU usage, that's a bottleneck I'd say.

However..performance is generally above 60fps, so no-one would see the difference apart from 120Hz monitor users.
    
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post #79 of 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post


Look at some where the HD6990 is way under even 95% GPU usage, that's a bottleneck I'd say.
However..performance is generally above 60fps, so no-one would see the difference apart from 120Hz monitor users.

 

 

Brutuz... there is a vast difference in throttling a subsystem & having that same system inturrupt and hold/slow the entire system down. When cross-referencing platforms, there are enherent "bottlenecks". Coincidentally, when talking ultr-specific (as u are doing), then one is simply talking about "load" on a system, or sub-system.

 

But your over-implication of what "bottlenecking" is.. is you trying to creat, or transition to effeciency..  by means of eliminating bottlenecks. This implies u don't understand why these "bottlenecks" exist and why the hardware is transitioning away from them. Effeciency in coding is a bottleneck you are unwilling to sample..  & that is call "bad coding".

 

 

DDR4 is comming..  whats the next bottleneck..?  Why does any of any CPU matter, if that system isn't run 100% off an SSD..?  see..?  it never ends with you.. 

post #80 of 216
Bottlenecks are everywhere, even a i7-3960X is a bottleneck at 5Ghz if you can get even a single frame per second more at 7Ghz.
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