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post #2531 of 3017
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigaluksys View Post

Yes, of course I see the problems. But like I said to a friend just now: Forget about each factions characteristics, it just doesn't matter anymore. The game is now shaped by the tears being shed in SOE forums.

Exactly my thoughts.

So, you haven't played the game after GU7? I won't say what I think of it because I don't want to influence your opinion, but I will tell you this:
I don't really care about KD, but I use it as a reference to see if I could improve something or try something different, and last night my KD was 0.2, down from the usual 1.5 I get. Yes, I had my precious Gauss Saw with me.

Don't form a concrete opinion on one night of play. I've done that too many times already and had to bite my tongue here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -SE7EN- View Post

I never saw this information in the manual. I haven't played in a while, but if we are all allowed to make up our own custom ruleset for how weapons work, I might just jump on tonight. The distance is irrelevant for anything besides VS drop off. NC hit harder per bullet, with a low ROF and a high COF. If we were meant to be only good up close and lose distances every time, we wouldn't have been given the starter sniper rifle we were. We wouldn't even have LMGs, carbines, and snipers. Shotties and revolvers (which I wouldn't mind lol)

It's kind of been the tradition with how they shape the mechanics since PS1 was developed. At least until people started crying because they picked the wrong faction for their playstyle. It's not in the rulebook, but you'll find plenty of references in the lore. In my opinion if you backpedal on that you take all of the flavor out of the game. It has absolutely no appeal other than it's size and many of us don't care about that anymore because it's been handled badly also.

Being disadvantaged doesn't mean you have no functionality at all, saying if your faction wasn't specialized it wouldn't have those options is just ridiculous and short-sighted. You can't make that work from a gameplay perspective and you know it.
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post #2532 of 3017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

It's kind of been the tradition with how they shape the mechanics since PS1 was developed. At least until people started crying because they picked the wrong faction for their playstyle. It's not in the rulebook, but you'll find plenty of references in the lore. In my opinion if you backpedal on that you take all of the flavor out of the game. It has absolutely no appeal other than it's size and many of us don't care about that anymore because it's been handled badly also.

Being disadvantaged doesn't mean you have no functionality at all, saying if your faction wasn't specialized it wouldn't have those options is just ridiculous and short-sighted. You can't make that work from a gameplay perspective and you know it.
You're applying an effect of one to the cause of another. NC are good at close range, not because they are SUPPOSED to be by definition, but because we do higher damage per bullet by definition. This gives us an advantage in a couple spots, if the situation is right. IF we hit you at range, we can bring you down quick, but if we miss, that's usually it, the low ROF doesn't allow for mistakes. the Gauss Saw IS a perfect example of how NC SHOULD work. like almost every other NC weapon, it has high damage + high CoF/low RoF. Bullets count, and you must finish them off, or the TR spray will end you every time. The other NC choices for that category are less NC-like in their attributes, losing damage for higher RoF. The EM6 is borderline TR-like. I don't see how it is even conceivable to make the gauss more 'NC-like' by making it less accurate. Have you fired one of them? They are barely even useable without the adv foregrip. The first shot is pretty accurate, the follow ups are terrible. Most NC, including myself don't hold the trigger down at range. Squeeze once and line up again, like a sniper, except that one shot is not going to bring someone down. Tr guys get lazy-mode, just hold m1 down, heck one of the 100 bullets is bound to hit someone.
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post #2533 of 3017
Sevens playing tonight? Looks like I might actually have to run with hammer tongue.gif
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post #2534 of 3017
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANDMYGUN View Post

Sevens playing tonight? Looks like I might actually have to run with hammer tongue.gif
I never said anything about a return lol. but yes. It is installed and I am backing up on steam, then will update with PS2 server. Probably have to get my TS3 permissions back though. I backed up my certificate and am using my original name, but I don't think everything worked right.
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post #2535 of 3017
Quote:
Originally Posted by -SE7EN- View Post

You're applying an effect of one to the cause of another. NC are good at close range, not because they are SUPPOSED to be by definition, but because we do higher damage per bullet by definition. This gives us an advantage in a couple spots, if the situation is right. IF we hit you at range, we can bring you down quick, but if we miss, that's usually it, the low ROF doesn't allow for mistakes. the Gauss Saw IS a perfect example of how NC SHOULD work. like almost every other NC weapon, it has high damage + high CoF/low RoF. Bullets count, and you must finish them off, or the TR spray will end you every time. The other NC choices for that category are less NC-like in their attributes, losing damage for higher RoF. The EM6 is borderline TR-like. I don't see how it is even conceivable to make the gauss more 'NC-like' by making it less accurate. Have you fired one of them? They are barely even useable without the adv foregrip. The first shot is pretty accurate, the follow ups are terrible. Most NC, including myself don't hold the trigger down at range. Squeeze once and line up again, like a sniper, except that one shot is not going to bring someone down. Tr guys get lazy-mode, just hold m1 down, heck one of the 100 bullets is bound to hit someone.

And that 1 person you hit out of your 100 round clip gives exactly 0 profanities about it, because it's typically a lower leg shot that deals less than 25% of their shield in damage. Theres so much win in bullet-spam they just had to buff the minigun. thumb.gif

High damage and good initial accuracy are perfect for close quarters. It doesn't take a stupid amount of precision to get headshots consistently when your target is within 15 meters, and since you only need 1 and a body shot the only mistake you can make is not to drag down on your mouse. Everything you've said corresponds with CQC, and no matter how much you think the SAW sucks inside, it is exactly the reason, and the only reason besides a MAX, that we are forced to give up trying to take a room with guns 95% of the time and just start grenade-spamming the crap out of you guys or wait for some shotguns to arrive.

Seriously, if I come up against more than a couple grouped SAWs in a base while I'm zerging I just respawn elsewhere. It's no fun dying faster than my latency.
Edited by Ganf - 4/19/13 at 12:52pm
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post #2536 of 3017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marafice Eye View Post



They used to be fine, but the TR and VS whined about them and got them nerfed, it's not our fault. Besides, the NC6 is the base starter weapon ffs.

T9 Carv is the starter weapon for the TR. It doesn't stop the VS and NC from calling for a nerf.

There's been a lot of defensive whining from all sides, don't get me wrong, but when the only dialogue between factions is "That's unfair, fix it!" "Nuh uh, yours is broken, fix that first!" nothing gets solved.

The disadvantages to the SAW are not disadvantages anymore if the entire player-base can compensate for them. They weren't disadvantages to begin with, they were inconveniences. If a weapon is statistically better, it will show in a game this large.

Oh cry me a river. The only time CARV was OP was with the old Flinch mechanic, everything else about the gun was fine.

Do you know what the general feel of the SAW was at launch? "Pft, it's only for long range, it's useless, get the EM6".
Do you know how much it changed? Very very little, and the one change it did get was in GU2 if I remember correctly. Months ago.
Do you know what we hear now that people actually learned how to use the gun? "It's OP, nerf it!

Stop crying about our gun, and use yours to your advantage. On my TR alt, I've repeatedly just jumped into a group of people with my TRAC-5 and started hip firing till I had to reload. I regularly get 3+ kills that way, and usually walk away alive. You don't see me screaming "It's OP, neft it!", do you? No. Because it also sucks at ADS range shooting. It's a CQC weapon. The SAW is a ranged weapon. Stop trying to fight us at range.

Also, I like how the person who hasn't played in weeks because they broke their mouse is trying to complain about game balance. And how the TR player is telling the NC our gun doesn't have disadvantages.

Play NC for a while, the SAW is the stock gun so you have no excuse. Then come back here and tell us how god-like it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

The SAW is extremely effective at close range. It's effective at medium range with burst fire, it's effective at long range with pot shots.

lachen.gif

Ok, ya, -10 credability points. You really need to make an alt so you can have any idea what you're saying about our guns. tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganf View Post

NC is supposed to have the advantage close, TR midrange, VS long, and yet everything you pointed out is completely backwards.

Once again: lachen.gif

Um, no. But thanks for trying.

NC: Long
Vanu: Med
TR: Short

And oh, hey, I've played all three factions and can confirm this is how it works!

You honestly think the NC, using Gauss Weapons is the close-range faction? Compared to lasers (powered by batteries, not a generator) and standard ammo? They're building gauss cannons for battleships that are designed to be a dumb projectile hitting it's target miles and miles away. Gauss is NOT an up-close-and-personal weapon type.

I have no idea where you're getting your information, but you really need to look again.
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post #2537 of 3017
I can vouch. I get ripped apart indoors from the CARV, it's just throwing too many bullets at me frown.gif

But a Gauss Saw with a Silencer is a wicked ninja weapon.
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post #2538 of 3017
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Oh cry me a river. The only time CARV was OP was with the old Flinch mechanic, everything else about the gun was fine.

Do you know what the general feel of the SAW was at launch? "Pft, it's only for long range, it's useless, get the EM6".
Do you know how much it changed? Very very little, and the one change it did get was in GU2 if I remember correctly. Months ago.
Do you know what we hear now that people actually learned how to use the gun? "It's OP, nerf it!

Stop crying about our gun, and use yours to your advantage. On my TR alt, I've repeatedly just jumped into a group of people with my TRAC-5 and started hip firing till I had to reload. I regularly get 3+ kills that way, and usually walk away alive. You don't see me screaming "It's OP, neft it!", do you? No. Because it also sucks at ADS range shooting. It's a CQC weapon. The SAW is a ranged weapon. Stop trying to fight us at range.

Also, I like how the person who hasn't played in weeks because they broke their mouse is trying to complain about game balance. And how the TR player is telling the NC our gun doesn't have disadvantages.

Play NC for a while, the SAW is the stock gun so you have no excuse. Then come back here and tell us how god-like it is.
lachen.gif

Ok, ya, -10 credability points. You really need to make an alt so you can have any idea what you're saying about our guns. tongue.gif
Once again: lachen.gif

Um, no. But thanks for trying.

NC: Long
Vanu: Med
TR: Short

And oh, hey, I've played all three factions and can confirm this is how it works!

You honestly think the NC, using Gauss Weapons is the close-range faction? Compared to lasers (powered by batteries, not a generator) and standard ammo? They're building gauss cannons for battleships that are designed to be a dumb projectile hitting it's target miles and miles away. Gauss is NOT an up-close-and-personal weapon type.

I have no idea where you're getting your information, but you really need to look again.

^^^ This man speaks the truth. Besides I actually don't like the NC6. I used the EM6 until I got the new NS-15M, love that thing. Only thing I don't like about it is the 55rd box. it's an LMG, should be at least 80-100rds, but hey they gotta balance it somehow.
 
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post #2539 of 3017
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Oh cry me a river. The only time CARV was OP was with the old Flinch mechanic, everything else about the gun was fine.

Do you know what the general feel of the SAW was at launch? "Pft, it's only for long range, it's useless, get the EM6".
Do you know how much it changed? Very very little, and the one change it did get was in GU2 if I remember correctly. Months ago.
Do you know what we hear now that people actually learned how to use the gun? "It's OP, nerf it!

Stop crying about our gun, and use yours to your advantage. On my TR alt, I've repeatedly just jumped into a group of people with my TRAC-5 and started hip firing till I had to reload. I regularly get 3+ kills that way, and usually walk away alive. You don't see me screaming "It's OP, neft it!", do you? No. Because it also sucks at ADS range shooting. It's a CQC weapon. The SAW is a ranged weapon. Stop trying to fight us at range.

Also, I like how the person who hasn't played in weeks because they broke their mouse is trying to complain about game balance. And how the TR player is telling the NC our gun doesn't have disadvantages.

Play NC for a while, the SAW is the stock gun so you have no excuse. Then come back here and tell us how god-like it is.
lachen.gif

Ok, ya, -10 credability points. You really need to make an alt so you can have any idea what you're saying about our guns. tongue.gif
Once again: lachen.gif

Um, no. But thanks for trying.

NC: Long
Vanu: Med
TR: Short

And oh, hey, I've played all three factions and can confirm this is how it works!

You honestly think the NC, using Gauss Weapons is the close-range faction? Compared to lasers (powered by batteries, not a generator) and standard ammo? They're building gauss cannons for battleships that are designed to be a dumb projectile hitting it's target miles and miles away. Gauss is NOT an up-close-and-personal weapon type.

I have no idea where you're getting your information, but you really need to look again.

From PS1. Please let's not pretend that SOE is actually doing legitimate research on this sort of technology. They have no clue about the applications of gauss or lasers, plasma or whatever. I'm not going to pretend that I know more than them. I'm not a physicist, and neither are you, so let's not go there. I'm not dodging this, I'm keeping us from getting mired is a bunch of BS about something that Planetside in general has gotten wrong on so many levels it's going to confuse the entire discussion.


http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL62970ED56B801204

The weapons in Planetside 1 had a lot more character, and were very well fitted for their roles. They were more fun to use and encouraged very interesting playstyles. Here's some videos demonstrating them with some description. Planetside 2's weapons are very samey in comparison, and since beta have been getting so screwed up that nobody knows what anything is intended for anymore. Trying to determine a faction's intended playstyle by looking at the current state of the game is like trying to read a newspaper at arms length, while holding it against the bottom of a muddy river you happen to be snorkeling in.

Forget it, I have no desire to play the game anymore. Just seeing how much damage the unwashed pre-teens have done to the game that even more clear-minded individuals can't remember what the hell is going on has put me off of it for good.

Edit: Note that I'm not saying that A is better than B or that B is not effective at C. I stated earlier that SOE keeps making mechanics changes without understanding the secondary implications those changes can have on gameplay. You in the same post mention that I haven't played in weeks but also point out that the SAW hasn't been changed since release.

Well... I'm sorry that my observations go back much further than release. I got a lot of time in during the early closed beta up until release.
Edited by Ganf - 4/19/13 at 1:50pm
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post #2540 of 3017
those new-ish pistols.... how are they not NC weapons lol. THUD. make the rebel and whatever the default is and make them NS, give us the lil thumpers lol. so sad though, I play with a headset on, so I won't hear the thuds through my sub
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