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post #41 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipmatthew View Post

Aww =(. Then how will we feed the ever demanding memory bandwidth needs of the APUS integrated GPU without upgrading the motherboard?

You'll have to upgrade the motherboard at some point, however I really wouldn't be surprised if at some point these APU's started putting GDDR on die.
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post #42 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SectorNine50 View Post


You'll have to upgrade the motherboard at some point, however I really wouldn't be surprised if at some point these APU's started putting GDDR on die.

Funny you mention this. I don't think it will be on-die, but I think it will be supplemented on the boards, but any chance there is any word of this anywhere in documentation/rumors from AMD?

It kind of negates the unification of RAM to CPU+GPU architecture they're building.
    
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post #43 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by GanjaSMK View Post

Funny you mention this. I don't think it will be on-die, but I think it will be supplemented on the boards, but any chance there is any word of this anywhere in documentation/rumors from AMD?
It kind of negates the unification of RAM to CPU+GPU architecture they're building.

I feel like GDDR on the mobo would be a weird choice, since you'd have to deal with the added latency. And that's not to say that the GPU wouldn't still be able access the RAM for compute functions.

There was a thread a long time ago, back before the Llano APU's released, that pictured an AMD chip with what appeared to be memory modules on the die. I couldn't even begin to know where to start looking for it, though. It's speculation, of course, but the direction this stuff is going makes it seem pretty logical.
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post #44 of 59
The one thing I wonder about is how HSA will affect virtualisation.
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post #45 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SectorNine50 View Post

I feel like GDDR on the mobo would be a weird choice, since you'd have to deal with the added latency. And that's not to say that the GPU wouldn't still be able access the RAM for compute functions.

Yeah, I think the same.

On the other hand, fully coherent system memory for both the CPU and the GPU makes a lot more of sense. Especially with the upcoming bandwidth monster called DDR4.
   
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post #46 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmac73 View Post

It's interesting that they are sticking with a PGA package on through 2014+

Nothing wrong with it is there? I'd honestly prefer it my self. You stand a better chance to straighten CPU pins than motherboard pins...and I've honestly never seen bent CPU pins. I hear of bent motherboard pins all the time on LGA sockets.

I have a feeling my next CPU upgrade will be an AMD APU...though by the time that happens I am sure Intel will have something better. However, if CPUs don't start being more important for both productions and gaming applications I think I will just go with whatever that has newer tech in it that does the job. I likely could never upgrade again and be fine...I will of course, I've accepted that inevitability, but not because I need to.

I don't hear much of bent motherboard pins, and LGA iirc offers better cooling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post

You need to read up on HSA. HSA optimization is designed to be as easy to code as regular x86 apps. HSA optimization can and will infiltrate the market quickly.
Sent from my XT875 using Tapatalk 2

Nothing moves quickly in the IT world...it is maddening. I don't see this moving fast at all. With ARM and Samsung as partners I am betting that it most likely will end up being a smartphone/tablet technology in some way first and then trickle over to PC.

heh..plus every one knows and "trusts" the Intel compiler. AMD is really going to have to really push to get any one to use their new HSA compiler if they ever actually make one (I've only heard their comments that they will make one and "seed" the market). This is an area that Intel really has a stranglehold on and without there help I don't see HSA getting a spot. Intel will probably make their own version of HSA just to keep things this way though. The AMD compiler is supposed to be compatible with most if not all programing languages though. If it works well, they might have a chance, but it would involve the dreaded change.

Don't get me wrong, I hope I am just being pessimistic and that we will see it sooner than later. However, if I were to put money on it I would bet that HSA might start appearing in the PC world eight to ten years from now if it isn't scrapped.

I'd see people moving to the AMD compiler if it offers much faster performance due to HSA, it's one of those things where the benefits can really outweigh the negatives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SectorNine50 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by flipmatthew View Post

I love how they're sticking to one socket! however, with trinity at the moment, we need 1866mhz+ ram. In future chips, we will need even more memory bandwidth to feed it. How are we going to do this without ddr4 or triple/quad channel memory, which requires changing motherboards? I really hope it is a new chip drop in upgrade to support ddr4 (if the pin out is the same)!

I can tell you right now that DDR4 won't have the same pinout as DDR3...

I think he means kinda like how you could get an AM3 Phenom II and run DDR2 or DDR3 on it.

Think like if I got a Trinity APU on FM2, then upgraded to Excavator later down the track, then I can just upgrade the motherboard and RAM as I please while still getting a decent CPU upgrade, it works really well since I can put the extra money I'd have vs having to get some new RAM, CPU and motherboard at the same time into getting slightly higher-end CPUs, a better motherboard and faster RAM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SectorNine50 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by flipmatthew View Post

Aww =(. Then how will we feed the ever demanding memory bandwidth needs of the APUS integrated GPU without upgrading the motherboard?

You'll have to upgrade the motherboard at some point, however I really wouldn't be surprised if at some point these APU's started putting GDDR on die.

They did have sideport DDR3 on the 790GX and 890GX boards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SectorNine50 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GanjaSMK View Post

Funny you mention this. I don't think it will be on-die, but I think it will be supplemented on the boards, but any chance there is any word of this anywhere in documentation/rumors from AMD?
It kind of negates the unification of RAM to CPU+GPU architecture they're building.

I feel like GDDR on the mobo would be a weird choice, since you'd have to deal with the added latency. And that's not to say that the GPU wouldn't still be able access the RAM for compute functions.

There was a thread a long time ago, back before the Llano APU's released, that pictured an AMD chip with what appeared to be memory modules on the die. I couldn't even begin to know where to start looking for it, though. It's speculation, of course, but the direction this stuff is going makes it seem pretty logical.

Latency doesn't matter as much as bandwidth, adding extra RAM on the motherboard would mean effectively having an extra channel or two for RAM.
    
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post #47 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimme View Post

HSA is designed to use the GPU without any changes in programming.

Its still going to need to use opencl.
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post #48 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SectorNine50 View Post

I can tell you right now that DDR4 won't have the same pinout as DDR3...

Besides, DDR4 will drop the bus architecture and adopt point-to-point connection, so there will only be one DIMM per channel of the memory controller.
Seems like it's the nature of almost everything to go from parallel to serial...
post #49 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I don't hear much of bent motherboard pins, and LGA iirc offers better cooling.
I'd see people moving to the AMD compiler if it offers much faster performance due to HSA, it's one of those things where the benefits can really outweigh the negatives.
I think he means kinda like how you could get an AM3 Phenom II and run DDR2 or DDR3 on it.
Think like if I got a Trinity APU on FM2, then upgraded to Excavator later down the track, then I can just upgrade the motherboard and RAM as I please while still getting a decent CPU upgrade, it works really well since I can put the extra money I'd have vs having to get some new RAM, CPU and motherboard at the same time into getting slightly higher-end CPUs, a better motherboard and faster RAM.
They did have sideport DDR3 on the 790GX and 890GX boards.
Latency doesn't matter as much as bandwidth, adding extra RAM on the motherboard would mean effectively having an extra channel or two for RAM.

Ahh bent motherboard pins... It happens more than people like to admit. It's also a terrible feeling when you've done it yourself, although a mechanical pencil and a steady hand can generally fix it.

You can run an AM3 Phenom II on DDR2 or DDR3, but you have to have a motherboard that supports DDR2 or DDR3 as the pinouts are different. He was talking about just upgrading RAM and the CPU on the same mobo.

I'm not sure what you mean by "sideport DDR3."

[EDIT]Oh oh oh, I had to google it, but I know what you mean now. The "sideport DDR3" was used for the video components on the motherboard, so it was basically the same as having DDR3 on your graphics card (low-latency). The AM3 chips don't have IGP's.[/EDIT]

Latency does matter when it comes to graphics. The last thing you want is a delayed frame buffer... smile.gif
Edited by SectorNine50 - 10/1/12 at 8:22am
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post #50 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fateful_Ikkou View Post

I can see myself switching back to AMD by the end of this year if they keep this up. smile.gif

This is a good thing. It keeps Intel innovating (or releasing things that they have developed but haven't brought to market) instead of holding back.

Anyhow it is great that AMD is back to using long term sockets. It gives it more value than Intel motherboards which get swapped every 2 years.
Edited by AlphaC - 10/1/12 at 8:36am
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