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[BSON] AMD Virgo Uncovered: Trinity Gives You Wings? - Page 6

post #51 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by flipmatthew View Post

Aww =(. Then how will we feed the ever demanding memory bandwidth needs of the APUS integrated GPU without upgrading the motherboard?
Lowering timings on RAM is pretty beneficial, well AFAIK on the Phenom platform, I'm not sure for the Trinity/PD/Kaveri.
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post #52 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SectorNine50 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

I don't hear much of bent motherboard pins, and LGA iirc offers better cooling.
I'd see people moving to the AMD compiler if it offers much faster performance due to HSA, it's one of those things where the benefits can really outweigh the negatives.
I think he means kinda like how you could get an AM3 Phenom II and run DDR2 or DDR3 on it.
Think like if I got a Trinity APU on FM2, then upgraded to Excavator later down the track, then I can just upgrade the motherboard and RAM as I please while still getting a decent CPU upgrade, it works really well since I can put the extra money I'd have vs having to get some new RAM, CPU and motherboard at the same time into getting slightly higher-end CPUs, a better motherboard and faster RAM.
They did have sideport DDR3 on the 790GX and 890GX boards.
Latency doesn't matter as much as bandwidth, adding extra RAM on the motherboard would mean effectively having an extra channel or two for RAM.

Ahh bent motherboard pins... It happens more than people like to admit. It's also a terrible feeling when you've done it yourself, although a mechanical pencil and a steady hand can generally fix it.

You can run an AM3 Phenom II on DDR2 or DDR3, but you have to have a motherboard that supports DDR2 or DDR3 as the pinouts are different. He was talking about just upgrading RAM and the CPU on the same mobo.

I'm not sure what you mean by "sideport DDR3."

[EDIT]Oh oh oh, I had to google it, but I know what you mean now. The "sideport DDR3" was used for the video components on the motherboard, so it was basically the same as having DDR3 on your graphics card (low-latency). The AM3 chips don't have IGP's.[/EDIT]

Latency does matter when it comes to graphics. The last thing you want is a delayed frame buffer... smile.gif

It's not any more prevalent than bent CPU pins, apart from a few bad motherboard makers.

Yeah, I wrote that before I read that post and forgot to remove it.

Latency doesn't matter anywhere nearly as much as bandwidth to a certain point, the current IGPs would be far more limited by bandwidth than latency, and AMD could easily make another channel or sideport that gets pins in the CPU socket for some sideport memory.
    
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post #53 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

It's not any more prevalent than bent CPU pins, apart from a few bad motherboard makers.
Yeah, I wrote that before I read that post and forgot to remove it.
Latency doesn't matter anywhere nearly as much as bandwidth to a certain point, the current IGPs would be far more limited by bandwidth than latency, and AMD could easily make another channel or sideport that gets pins in the CPU socket for some sideport memory.

Not saying it was, and usually pins (motherboard or CPU) get bent by user error, not from factory.

I'm not sure why you appear think that you could get higher bandwidth with an on-board solution than with an on-die. And even if you have a direct pinout to the memory, it's still going to have a higher latency than on-die memory due to the increased distance. This is one of the same reasons that everything started getting put on the die to begin with.

My point is, why put the memory on the motherboard? What would you gain from doing that? If you have an APU with a iGPU that realistically couldn't take advantage of anything more than 512MB, why would a person want to pay extra for a motherboard with 1GB? So you buy the one with 512MB, because it's cheaper. Makes sense.

But then lets say you upgrade the APU and the new iGPU can utilize more than 512MB. Since you initially bought a cheap motherboard with only 512MB you now have to upgrade both components to get the most out of your hardware.

I see no reason for AMD to invest in motherboard based "sideport" video memory when that's basically what they are doing with RAM right now anyway.

If I were an AMD engineer, I would most certainly aim to put GDDR on the die it's self. High bandwidth, low latency, and capacity and speed will upgrade with the new hardware that relies upon it.

Sounds pretty dreamy to me.
Edited by SectorNine50 - 10/1/12 at 8:53pm
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post #54 of 59
No, you couldn't get higher bandwidth and I never said that, I was saying that's more likely due to price factors, rather than having extra die space used by the GDDR...yeah.
    
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post #55 of 59
How do you fit GDDR onto a die? Seems... almost impossible?
    
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post #56 of 59
Technically you can fit anything on a die, but making it work is the difficult part, that said, it'd just pretty much be putting the die from a GDDR module onboard the main die instead of on another separate die connected via the PCB.
    
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post #57 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by GanjaSMK View Post

How do you fit GDDR onto a die? Seems... almost impossible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Technically you can fit anything on a die, but making it work is the difficult part, that said, it'd just pretty much be putting the die from a GDDR module onboard the main die instead of on another separate die connected via the PCB.

Hell, AMD even has an entire ARM processor for encryption on their yet-to-be-released processors! It's like a processor within a processor...
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post #58 of 59
This I did not know, both posts above. thinking.gif
    
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post #59 of 59
For reference:
Quote:
AMD is already taking steps in that direction by opening up its chip design to support external processing cores. For example, the company in June said it would combine its x86 processor with ARM's Cortex-A5 processor with TrustZone security technology on a single chip for tablets and PCs. ARM and x86 are rival processor architectures for tablets, servers, PCs and smartphones, but AMD's chip-design methodology is radically different compared to Intel, which is building on-chip technologies in-house.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/261559/amd_trying_to_bridge_the_gap_between_x86_and_arm.html
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