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[NY Times] Uranium Plant Using Laser Technology Wins U.S. Approval - Page 3

post #21 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by navynuke499 View Post

This
Chernobyl on the other hand you are correct about, those guys ignored and silenced alarms and bypassed safety features and really didnt understand what they were doing. that was a huge mess made by the operators.

AND it was an awful reactor design that was ready and willing to spiral out of control. The guys working there really had nothing going for them.
    
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post #22 of 75
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Originally Posted by navynuke499 View Post

This
There wasnt much that could be done after it had been damaged. Chernobyl on the other hand you are correct about, those guys ignored and silenced alarms and bypassed safety features and really didnt understand what they were doing. that was a huge mess made by the operators.

Sorry not true.

http://rt.com/news/fukushima-nuclear-disaster-report-459/

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/japans-atomic-disaster-caused-collusion-panel-report-083102129.html

I would have to dig more because the workers could have prevented this. At least taken the proper steps, I cant be a prophet and say it would have been totally prevented, but they didn't do what they were suppose too.

Also im not bagging on the poor souls in that plant when that all went down, I just believe in human error causing the mess.

Also this.
Quote:
After the loss of site power and reactor shutdown, Unit 1 was initially cooled using the isolation condenser system. About 10 minutes after the earthquake, TEPCO operators removed both of Unit 1's isolation condensers from service, and instead chose to activate the HPCI (High Pressure Coolant Injection) systems to cool the reactor and the core spray system was activated at 15:07 to cool the suppression pool. The core spray system was disabled with AC power loss at 15:37 (The tsunami) and the HPCI system failed following DC (i.e., battery back up) power loss.[citation needed]
Operators were unable to restart the isolation condensers for an extended period of time after the tsunami (greater than 30 minutes). After that, the isolation condensers were operated intermittently, for unknown reasons. The isolation condensers were designed to successfully cool Unit 1 for at least 8 hours, and it is unknown how effective they were. After that, refill would have been required to the isolation condenser tanks which are under atmospheric pressure (low pumping head requirements). By design, isolation condensers would have removed the heat from the reactor transferring it out of the primary containment and into the atmosphere, but with limited and non-existent operation, core and containment cooling was not successful.
For whatever reason, the isolation condensor apparently did not work. On 27 February 2012 NISA ordered TEPCO to reveal – before 12 March 2012 – why the layout of the isolation condensor was changed. In the papers of the original application (dated from July 1966) for reactor 1 the tubes were separated from each other. But in the blueprints submitted in October 1967, the two tubes were connected with each other outside the reactor vessel. TEPCO apparently changed the design without notifying NISA, in violation of legal procedure.[52]

They turned off the Isolation condensers because they thought things were under control, when hit the fan they had no way to turn them back on. There was a gauge reading error in all of this as well. It had something to do with the Fuel coolant level gauge showing the water level rising in the fuel rod tanks. They had no temp gauge and in fact what was happening the fuel rods were heating and causing pressure build-up that was showing the water level was increasing.

This wasnt realized until so much pressure built up the water level passed the point in witch the tanks should fill too so the operators clued in it may be the pressure and at that point they couldnt turn the isolation condenser back on because of the radiation near the manual valve. The valve couldnt be opened in the control room because of the power outage an only tripped when the plant initially got hit because it had battery power at that point.
post #23 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by navynuke499 View Post

This
There wasnt much that could be done after it had been damaged. Chernobyl on the other hand you are correct about, those guys ignored and silenced alarms and bypassed safety features and really didnt understand what they were doing. that was a huge mess made by the operators.

Yea Chernobyl was definitely human error and a terrible reactor design on top. Most of the reactors in service in the us are from before the mid 1980's all the way back to the 60's, and were not designed to be in service this long.

Edit: I skimmed your articles and did not see a direct human cause to why the reactors melted down, but only a witch hunt looking for someone to blame.
Edited by Aesir - 9/28/12 at 7:04pm
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post #24 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttwerdun View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by navynuke499 View Post

This
There wasnt much that could be done after it had been damaged. Chernobyl on the other hand you are correct about, those guys ignored and silenced alarms and bypassed safety features and really didnt understand what they were doing. that was a huge mess made by the operators.

Sorry not true.

http://rt.com/news/fukushima-nuclear-disaster-report-459/

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/japans-atomic-disaster-caused-collusion-panel-report-083102129.html

I would have to dig more because the workers could have prevented this. At least taken the proper steps, I cant be a prophet and say it would have been totally prevented, but they didn't do what they were suppose too.

Also im not bagging on the poor souls in that plant when that all went down, I just believe in human error causing the mess.

REGARDLESS, this helps the case that, when managed properly (and even improperly) a melt-down is very unlikely. It took a horrid natural disaster AND complete negligence to go down.
post #25 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridden View Post

REGARDLESS, this helps the case that, when managed properly (and even improperly) a melt-down is very unlikely. It took a horrid natural disaster AND complete negligence to go down.

Yes I agree.
post #26 of 75
Construction of the Fukushima I plant began in 1967 and it was commissioned in 1971, 40 years before the incident. The way nuclear tech and validation works this means that the design of the plant is going to be even older, probably more like 50 years old. We have moved on a great deal since then - newer designs like the pebble bed reactor are supposedly fail safe in that even if the cooling is shut off completely it won't melt down.

I find it hard to blame the operators for the incident. I have been in the control room of a coal plant when everything went to hell - you get presented with a lot of conflicting information. Some gauges will read one thing, others another. It is difficult to tell at the time which ones are reading the right thing and which ones are faulty, and it would be very hard to get an accurate picture of what is going. Add to that the fact that you don't have long to make a decision and the fear of making the wrong one...

So no, I really can't blame the operators. It is easy to piece things together afterwards from the comfort of a desk and criticize.
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post #27 of 75
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Originally Posted by dontpwnmebro View Post

it seems, based on many so called "nuclear engineers" and "nuclear scientists" on the internet (many of them with some sort of proof or knowledge base to back it up for laymen), nuclear power plants are designed to make meltdowns almost impossible.
Someone tell Japan that.
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post #28 of 75
People need to do more research on nuclear power. Many of them are grossly misinformed about the danger they pose (next to none). Lack of understanding by the public is holding us back in so many areas...
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post #29 of 75
As the consequences for nuclear accidents are forever I find the "almost zero" and "very unlikely" and "almost impossible" and ... reassurances to not be very reassuring. You have to be brain washed to accept nuclear power where you live, because in an long enough timeline "almost zero" and "very unlikely" suddenly become "almost 100" and "very likely".

Until you can say "accidents are impossible" and "zero chance of accident" you won't find nuclear power ever where I live.


edit: I should go through this thread and find all the quotes essentially admitting that sooner or later a nuclear accident will happen at any given reactor. "next to none" was used as I typed up my post.
post #30 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

As the consequences for nuclear accidents are forever I find the "almost zero" and "very unlikely" and "almost impossible" and ... reassurances to not be very reassuring. You have to be brain washed to accept nuclear power where you live, because in an long enough timeline "almost zero" and "very unlikely" suddenly become "almost 100" and "very likely".
Until you can say "accidents are impossible" and "zero chance of accident" you won't find nuclear power ever where I live.
edit: I should go through this thread and find all the quotes essentially admitting that sooner or later a nuclear accident will happen at any given reactor. "next to none" was used as I typed up my post.

Nuclear power is the safest form of generating electricity. There have been zero nuclear-power related deaths in the US, and less than a couple thousand globally, in the past 30 years (including Chernobyl). Coal, natural gas, oil, hydro etc. are all more dangerous than nuclear, but I bet you're fine with having one of those power plants near you. 1,000 people die from falling down stairs every year. Are stairs too dangerous for you? Are you not going to find stairs where you live, based on that chance?

Sooner or later, an accident is going to happen at ANYTHING. Walking down the street, driving, shopping, taking a shower. Are those too risky for you?
Edited by Fortunex - 9/28/12 at 8:12pm
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