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Question concerning a Vcore pattern

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I own this motherboard - Biostar TP67XE

I've had this board for about one year now, I've noticed about every 2 months I get a x124 BSOD when the system is idle and have to increase my Vcore by .010 V and it's fine for another 2 months.

Is this a sign that I can't do this much longer ? as I'm nearing the "unsafe" Vcore voltages ?

When idle it's at 1.356, It's set to 1.370 in the bios, it stays at 1.380 when I'm doing anything using more than idle resources, It spikes to 1.392 with P95 running.

--

Also contemplating a Bios update since my Bios is over a year old, and I have an SSD on it's way and I want to be prepared.
post #2 of 11

How long can your system run Prime95's Blend test at this overclock?

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post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

How long can your system run Prime95's Blend test at this overclock?

I originally tested for hours during my initial overclock when I first built the system, since then I test for about 20 minutes after each increase I add due to the bi-monthly BSOD and there's never been an issue, I've also done an incredible amount of encoding too and never had issues.

So, your answer would be 20 minutes, but nothing else has ever been unstable. but the Vcore increase trend is showing there's wear and tear occurring.

I guess I'm going to have to try to increase that other voltage people were talking about so I can get away with a lower Vcore voltage ?

Edit - With a P95 Blend test and CPU Z running I noticed the multiplier is now jumping all over the place and changes from 33 - 37-44-43-44-33

There's obviously something going on now.

Edit 2 - I disabled "Execute Disable Bit" - buffer overflow protection, Changed the Power Limit 1 and 2 Value to 120 Watts each, up from 110.

And with a Blend test in P95 the Vcore stays at 1.392 and the multiplier doesn't fluctuate.

So that issue is solved, which is something I just noticed last night.
Edited by Ascii Aficionado - 9/29/12 at 12:02pm
post #4 of 11
if you have to keep increasing vcore every few months, you need to ask yourself why? The one answer that you don't want to hear is that your CPu is degrading. You can do two things, lower the frequency a bit, and possibly reduce the vcore a lot by doing that, or make sure everything is fine with cooling the CPU.

IMO you can always buy Intel protection plan and RMA your CPU once it degrades a lot, that way you don't need to bother with caring about vcore.
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post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

if you have to keep increasing vcore every few months, you need to ask yourself why? The one answer that you don't want to hear is that your CPu is degrading. You can do two things, lower the frequency a bit, and possibly reduce the vcore a lot by doing that, or make sure everything is fine with cooling the CPU.
IMO you can always buy Intel protection plan and RMA your CPU once it degrades a lot, that way you don't need to bother with caring about vcore.

This is the first proc I've had that I OC'd, I thought it might be the mobo somehow, wasn't sure.

If I need to I can always go back to stock , unless that's somehow not possible now ?
post #6 of 11
yea that is possible, IMO just keep going you might as well get everything out of it. You can always increase vcore more and more until it dies. Prob got a few years until that. Also try that warranty thing it is prety cheap, like $30
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post #7 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascii Aficionado View Post


I originally tested for hours during my initial overclock when I first built the system, since then I test for about 20 minutes after each increase I add due to the bi-monthly BSOD and there's never been an issue, I've also done an incredible amount of encoding too and never had issues.

 

How many hours?

 

What I'm getting at I think that it's possible that instead of degradation, this could just be your system showing that it's just no stable yet.  Sometimes instability takes a while to show up.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascii Aficionado View Post

Edit - With a P95 Blend test and CPU Z running I noticed the multiplier is now jumping all over the place and changes from 33 - 37-44-43-44-33
There's obviously something going on now.

 

I don't know, you'd have to ask around.  I don't know if this means anything or not (at least, I don't know as of yet).

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascii Aficionado View Post

Edit 2 - I disabled "Execute Disable Bit" - buffer overflow protection, Changed the Power Limit 1 and 2 Value to 120 Watts each, up from 110.
And with a Blend test in P95 the Vcore stays at 1.392 and the multiplier doesn't fluctuate.
So that issue is solved, which is something I just noticed last night.

 

Execute Disable Bit is for the Windows feature called Data Execution Prevention (or "DEP").  You can leave it enabled.

 

Does your motherboard allow for using an Offset voltage?  Using an Offset voltage will enable the voltage to sit at very low levels when the CPU is idling instead of having 1.356V going through it constantly.  For example, my CPU is sitting at about 1.000V on average while I'm just sitting here typing this message.  My full-load voltage is about 1.376V.  So, it sits at approximately 1.000V most of the time.

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post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

How many hours?

What I'm getting at I think that it's possible that instead of degradation, this could just be your system showing that it's just no stable yet.  Sometimes instability takes a while to show up.


2 hours during my initial test, no more than 10 minutes for subsequent tests. judging by how everything's performed it's been "stable" every time. Though I'm aware most other people test significantly longer. What's important to note is that when the x124 BSOD does occur every 2-3 months it only occurs when the system is idle, which is what I find odd. I have literally never had a BSOD while doing anything on the system except for one time about 6 months ago.

What does indicate that it's degrading is that after a BSOD does occur that Vcore is no longer sufficient to run P95 for more than a single minute, and I have to give it a .010 V increase then everything's back to being fine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Execute Disable Bit is for the Windows feature called Data Execution Prevention (or "DEP").  You can leave it enabled.

Does your motherboard allow for using an Offset voltage?  Using an Offset voltage will enable the voltage to sit at very low levels when the CPU is idling instead of having 1.356V going through it constantly.  For example, my CPU is sitting at about 1.000V on average while I'm just sitting here typing this message.  My full-load voltage is about 1.376V.  So, it sits at approximately 1.000V most of the time.

I tried the Offset voltage and it went up to 1.429 V during P95 so I killed it within seconds as I thought those are the dangerous levels.

Also, I was under the impression that using some others settings such as power saving that my idle voltage was significantly lower, which it apparently isn't.

So, I was using an Offset Voltage of + 0.0000 which is the default one, what's making it jump up to 1.429 V ? Which is also what people warned me about when I first started to try my OC and warned against using the Offset setting.
Edited by Ascii Aficionado - 9/30/12 at 2:21pm
post #9 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascii Aficionado View Post


2 hours during my initial test, no more than 10 minutes for subsequent tests. judging by how everything's performed it's been "stable" every time. Though I'm aware most other people test significantly longer. What's important to note is that when the x124 BSOD does occur every 2-3 months it only occurs when the system is idle, which is what I find odd. I have literally never had a BSOD while doing anything on the system except for one time about 6 months ago.
What does indicate that it's degrading is that after a BSOD does occur that Vcore is no longer sufficient to run P95 for more than a single minute, and I have to give it a .010 V increase then everything's back to being fine.
I tried the Offset voltage and it went up to 1.429 V during P95 so I killed it within seconds as I thought those are the dangerous levels.
Also, I was under the impression that using some others settings such as power saving that my idle voltage was significantly lower, which it apparently isn't.
So, I was using an Offset Voltage of + 0.0000 which is the default one, what's making it jump up to 1.429 V ? Which is also what people warned me about when I first started to try my OC.

 

The reason for 1.429V is because this offset voltage is an Automatic one.  Try +0.005V and increase it from there.

 

Idle BSODs usually occur when the idle voltage is too low in order to maintain stability.  Instability is also stressful for hardware, so this may be why degradation could be occurring.  2 hours of Prime95 is nowhere near enough to determine whether or not a system is stable, so I'm willing to say that it hasn't been stable yet to date even though it usually seems like it's stable.  I mean if it were truly stable, then these problems wouldn't (or shouldn't) be happening, especially with your system.  It should be smooth sailing.

 

A minimum of 12 hours of Prime95 is pretty much required in order to begin determining whether or not a system is stable, especially at bigger overclocks like this one.  I will always recommend 24 hours because it takes about 24 hours for Prime95 v27.7 build 2 to get through all 82 of its FFTs in the Blend test.

 

Getting back to the idle voltage being too low for stability, this is also usually caused by the idle voltage being lower than the full-load voltage, and this is usually caused by using way too high of a Load-Line Calibration setting.  Using too high of an LLC setting can also be dangerous on lower quality motherboards because of the micro voltage spikes that occur when load starts on the CPU and when load stops (it's kind of like a spring or a rubber band or a guitar string getting plucked - it spikes and then settles down).  Too high of an LLC setting is also much more stressful on the VRM which also results in higher VRM temperatures.  So, it may be possible that your VRM is degrading.  It's hard to tell at this point.

 

So, I recommend lowering the LLC a notch or two and then adjusting your core voltage in order to compensate.  It's safer to have the idle voltage being slightly higher than your full-load voltage.  This also helps avoid idle BSODs entirely.  Speaking of which, if you decide to use an Offset voltage, then disable C3 and C6 because otherwise you will get idle BSODs or lock-ups.

 

Ultimately, I do recommend working on making your system so stable that it can run Prime95's Blend test for an absolute minimum of 12 hours.  I say that if you don't want to do that or you can't, then you may end up having worse problems down the road, like data corruption of irreplaceable data.  It's like lightning:  you can't predict when or where it will strike.


Edited by TwoCables - 9/30/12 at 2:29pm
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It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
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post #10 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

The reason for 1.429V is because this offset voltage is an Automatic one.  Try +0.005V and increase it from there.

Idle BSODs usually occur when the idle voltage is too low in order to maintain stability.  Instability is also stressful for hardware, so this may be why degradation could be occurring.  2 hours of Prime95 is nowhere near enough to determine whether or not a system is stable, so I'm willing to say that it hasn't been stable yet to date even though it usually seems like it's stable.  I mean if it were truly stable, then these problems wouldn't (or shouldn't) be happening, especially with your system.  It should be smooth sailing.

A minimum of 12 hours of Prime95 is pretty much required in order to begin determining whether or not a system is stable, especially at bigger overclocks like this one.  I will always recommend 24 hours because it takes about 24 hours for Prime95 v27.7 build 2 to get through all 82 of its FFTs in the Blend test.

Getting back to the idle voltage being too low for stability, this is also usually caused by the idle voltage being lower than the full-load voltage, and this is usually caused by using way too high of a Load-Line Calibration setting.  Using too high of an LLC setting can also be dangerous on lower quality motherboards because of the micro voltage spikes that occur when load starts on the CPU and when load stops (it's kind of like a spring or a rubber band or a guitar string getting plucked - it spikes and then settles down).  Too high of an LLC setting is also much more stressful on the VRM which also results in higher VRM temperatures.  So, it may be possible that your VRM is degrading.  It's hard to tell at this point.

So, I recommend lowering the LLC a notch or two and then adjusting your core voltage in order to compensate.  It's safer to have the idle voltage being slightly higher than your full-load voltage.  This also helps avoid idle BSODs entirely.  Speaking of which, if you decide to use an Offset voltage, then disable C3 and C6 because otherwise you will get idle BSODs or lock-ups.

Ultimately, I do recommend working on making your system so stable that it can run Prime95's Blend test for an absolute minimum of 12 hours.  I say that if you don't want to do that or you can't, then you may end up having worse problems down the road, like data corruption of irreplaceable data.  It's like lightning:  you can't predict when or where it will strike.


I know some of those settings I'm not using, so I'm going to have to check now.

Looks like I'm going to be spending the next 2 days testing OC's with P95 before my SSD arrives on Tuesday. I wanted to update my mobo bios since it's over one year old.

I'll reply with what I have things set to currently that you've mentioned as you'll likely have some input.

And thanks for the input so far.
Edited by Ascii Aficionado - 9/30/12 at 5:07pm
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