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Review of GIGABYTE's 2nd Gen. X79 Workstation MB: X79S-UP5 - Page 6

post #51 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

As I've mentioned before, I'm also fairly convinced it's a TDP/current limiter issue.
Gigabyte got back to me again today and they now suspect it's an issue with my CPU...yet I've been able to test the chip in an ASUS board, with no such issues.
Actually, I could not get any MEI driver to install (not the one's on Gigabyte's site, nor the newest from Intel) correctly until I found an old one on the Windows Update Catalog for the older C200 chipset...which I thought was really odd. Any other driver I used would produce an error 10 - device failed to start. I figured it was some incompatibility with Server 2008 R2.
However, I've never encountered a system that actually needed such a driver to be overclocked, or for much of anything else I do really.
Well, I am running tests on the VRM temperatures now. I hooked up my DT301 with a K-type probe to the base of the VRM heatsink. I realize that this is not right on the VRM, but in order to get in there I would have to remove the whole board and remove the heatsink, which I have no plans of doing. I made sure to put the probe in an area with obstructed airflow (behind the 8-pin CPU connector) and then I ran a 10 minute Prime95 Blend test with the chip at default with Turbo enabled. Peak VRM temperatures measured at heatsink base were at 30.5C. Let's say that by some odd chance the VRM is 15C hotter than the heatsink, that would put it at 45.5C. Next, without moving the probe or anything, I ran a 10 minute test at 4.4GHz (of course, it's not really 4.4GHz since the board is immediately throttling when I load it with Prime95 Blend). After 10 minutes, the peak VRM temperatures measured at the base of the heatsink were 33.3C. Again, let's say that the actual temperatures of the VRM if I could put the probe directly on one of them are 15C more, that puts the VRM temperature at 48.3C measured on the VRM. Heck, if they were 30C more measured directly at the VRM itself, that still puts the VRM no higher than 63.3C. That's nothing for this type of high-end VRM wink.gif

As for the "it's the CPU comment", can you please point them to this thread, and can you even give them my name and tell them that I emailed them with the exact same problem, and posted on Tweaktown about it, and on NCIX, and on Newegg? What's the chance of having two defective CPUs both exhibiting identical symptoms and both on this board? I'm not buying that even for a second. Seriously though, please refer them to this thread so they can see all that I have posted in terms of findings. They are stringing us along to no end. They need to just fix the problem.

Lastly, I agree about the ME driver. I did want to just leave the opportunity open, but that is definitely not the problem here.

Here is the VRM temp measurement at stock clock (Turbo enabled)


And then at 4.4GHz

Edited by dejanh - 11/1/12 at 11:17pm
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post #52 of 367
I decided to run one more test, this time with an old tool called Arena (chess simulation), using a Toga II engine capable of loading 8 threads at the same time. I used this program before to diagnose the OCP/TDP limitation problem on the Asus R2E board I mentioned earlier. Basically, if OCP/TDP limit is what is causing the throttling, then this tool will not cause throttling to occur. It loads the CPU at 100% workload, but the workload is not power-intensive and does not draw a large amount of current like the workload that is simulated with LinX for example. After running the tool for 12 minutes and counting at 4.6GHz, well, see for yourself...no throttling occurs.



I'm 100% certain that this is OCP/TDP throttling that's going on. As for the other issue that results in CPU multiplier simply having no effect when Turbo is disabled, that one is still puzzling me (I did read that apparently SB-E is overclocked via the Turbo feature, but this is bizarre and maybe somebody can explain why that is so).

Edit: I also do not understand why the current limits in the UEFI are set at 300A maximum (not sure that even this works keeping in mind the throttling issues) when the VRM on this board is supposed to be capable of handling 480A. I can understand wanting to be 10% below maximum, maybe even 20%, but almost 40% less seems kind of unnecessary rolleyes.gif
Edited by dejanh - 11/2/12 at 1:01am
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post #53 of 367
Well, spoke to Gigabyte support this morning, laid out the full case. Surprisingly, they did not try to give me the run-around. They said that they will pass on the problem to their headquarters to have it looked at. I offered to assist them in troubleshooting it and they said that they may send me some specific updated BIOS to try. Let's see what happens. This is by no means the end of this. I know I'll have to keep pressuring them on the matter before it is resolved. Let's keep contacting them about this so that they stay on top of it.
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post #54 of 367
Disappointing results, thank the heavens i did not went for one, i was always suspicious there were reviews highlighting the poor overclocking performance despite the specs and promises.
    
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post #55 of 367
dejanh, thanks for backing me up on this. I intend to keep up with Gigabyte and make them aware this is not an isolated incident or some hardware issue.

Regarding VRM temps, I've been measuring the back of the board, which does get considerably hotter than even the base of the VRM heatsink. Still, I've never been able to get the back of my board over ~60C, so the odds of the VRMs being more than 70-75 are slim, and this is ~50-60C below what the parts are rated for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dansi View Post

Disappointing results, thank the heavens i did not went for one, i was always suspicious there were reviews highlighting the poor overclocking performance despite the specs and promises.

I read reviews before I purchased my board, and not one mentioned this issue, at least not with anything resembling clarity.

Indeed, the majority of reviews I've seen have been poorly done and exceedingly vague. Many seem to have been written by people with only casual knowledge of OCing, or by those who didn't really bother with any serious testing.

Frankly, I would have been accepting of a board with OCing abilities not on par with the best, even the 4.4GHz or so reported by most reviews would have been acceptable (I didn't buy it just to OC). However, I (and apparently I am not alone) have a board that, for practical intents and purposes, cannot be OCed at all.

I'm pretty disillusioned with motherboard reviews, as many are still full of meaningless benchmarks (which are nearly a;ways within margin of error amongst similar platforms), and little in-depth testing of features and out of spec capabilities. Any board that isn't broken is going to perform the same another built around the same platform, and I can look at a picture and know the pros and cons of the layout, so the only thing that really matters with a review is that, oft missing, testing.
Edited by Blameless - 11/2/12 at 11:36pm
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post #56 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by dejanh View Post

I decided to run one more test, this time with an old tool called Arena (chess simulation), using a Toga II engine capable of loading 8 threads at the same time. I used this program before to diagnose the OCP/TDP limitation problem on the Asus R2E board I mentioned earlier. Basically, if OCP/TDP limit is what is causing the throttling, then this tool will not cause throttling to occur. It loads the CPU at 100% workload, but the workload is not power-intensive and does not draw a large amount of current like the workload that is simulated with LinX for example. After running the tool for 12 minutes and counting at 4.6GHz, well, see for yourself...no throttling occurs.

I did a similar test and showed my results to Gigabyte a while back. I used Prim95...26.6 doesn't throttle at 4.2GHz, while the AVX enabled 27.7 does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dejanh View Post

I'm 100% certain that this is OCP/TDP throttling that's going on. As for the other issue that results in CPU multiplier simply having no effect when Turbo is disabled, that one is still puzzling me (I did read that apparently SB-E is overclocked via the Turbo feature, but this is bizarre and maybe somebody can explain why that is so).

Another BIOS fluke.

The F1-F3 BIOS can be OCed with Turbo disabled, but they still throttle. Something they changed in the F4 line broke this.

I should also note one exception. While underclocking the multiplier I was able to get the system to run with the 1.25x strap, and slowly work my way up to 32x, or 4GHz, which never throttled, in anything, even with higher than normal vcore and temps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dejanh View Post

Edit: I also do not understand why the current limits in the UEFI are set at 300A maximum (not sure that even this works keeping in mind the throttling issues) when the VRM on this board is supposed to be capable of handling 480A. I can understand wanting to be 10% below maximum, maybe even 20%, but almost 40% less seems kind of unnecessary rolleyes.gif

I'm pretty sure those settings are totally non-functional in all BIOSes released thus far.

There is no way my CPU is pulling 300A at the meager 4-4.2GHz OCs I've been using as a demonstration, and none of the turbo boost power settings seem to have any impact on when throttling occurs with my board.
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post #57 of 367
Funny issues you guys are having, I have this board paired with an i7 3930K and 2133Mhz RAM and it runs fine for me, no issues being stuck in a specific clock, the CPU will run at 3.8Ghz at load and 1.2Ghz when idling. It will run at a max of 3.5Ghz or something if I set my RAM at a lower frequency but I guess thats normal because my Asrock X79 board did that as well.

Also, can this board run stable with 64GB of RAM installed at 2133Mhz or speeds over 1600Mhz? Because I heard that most X79 boards with 64GB will run unstable with speeds over 1333Mhz, can somebody confirm is this true or it depends on the motherboard?
Edited by Chrono Detector - 11/3/12 at 1:27am
    
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post #58 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrono Detector View Post

Funny issues you guys are having, I have this board paired with an i7 3930K and 2133Mhz RAM and it runs fine for me, no issues being stuck in a specific clock, the CPU will run at 3.8Ghz at load and 1.2Ghz when idling. It will run at a max of 3.5Ghz or something if I set my RAM at a lower frequency but I guess thats normal because my Asrock X79 board did that as well.
Also, can this board run stable with 64GB of RAM installed at 2133Mhz or speeds over 1600Mhz? Because I heard that most X79 boards with 64GB will run unstable with speeds over 1333Mhz, can somebody confirm is this true or it depends on the motherboard?
I think that you have completely misunderstood what the issues are that we are reporting, and you are bundling multiple things into one.

1. Throttling is the main and the biggest problem right now. As soon as you overclock throttling kicks in big time. You need to OC to say 4.2-4.4GHz, then run latest version of Prime95 and you will see the throttling in action as long as you have latest CPU-Z running and you are watching the clock speed. There is no throttling going on at stock.
2. Next issue is that the board should be able to overclock without Turbo being enabled by setting the multiplier, which, as Blameless reported, has stopped working as of UEFI BIOS version F4 being released. This a plain-as-day broken feature that should be fixed (and should be easy to fix).
3. The Turbo power and current settings in the UEFI BIOS have no effect on anything and they appear not to work at all for the moment.
4. The board has trouble running 2133MHz memory if all of the memory slots are filled up. I can run 2133MHz memory all day long without any manual adjustments in a 16GB combination (4x4GB), but if I go to a 32GB combination (8x4GB) I have to drop the speed to 1866MHz.

They are four separate issues, though the first 3 are (or quite possibly are) closely related.

I'm running some more tests right now and will reply shortly with results.
Edited by dejanh - 11/3/12 at 11:31am
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Corsair Professional Series Gold CMPSU-1200AX Antec 1200 Gamer Case, Custom Full-window Side ... Logitech G9 Laser Mouse Auzentech X-Fi Forte 
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post #59 of 367
To be fair SB-E will not overclock if you disable Turbo. That is Intel specifications
    
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X4 940 Biostar 790GX 128M 4890 1GB 4GB 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
X4 940 Biostar 790GX 128M 4890 1GB 4GB 
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320GB 32X Samsung ODD Windows XP SP3 Dell FPW2407 
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Corsair HX 520W Lian Li A07 
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post #60 of 367
Thread Starter 
hey i reported the issue again to GB HQ, I am waiting for a response, but they are investigating.
    
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Intel Core i9 7980XE X299E-ITX/ac GTX 1080 Ti FE G.Skill 3800MHz 4x8GB Quad Channel SO-DIMM Kit 
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512GB 960 Pro Bitspower AIO/ITX Full Cover Block Win 10 4K 37" 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel Motherboards › Review of GIGABYTE's 2nd Gen. X79 Workstation MB: X79S-UP5