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Review of GIGABYTE's 2nd Gen. X79 Workstation MB: X79S-UP5 - Page 8

post #71 of 367
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dejanh View Post

I think that you may be unpleasantly surprised when you either receive a non-working board, or you receive a GA-X79-UD5 with a BT4/WIFI addon card.
Anyway, back to the issues at hand...
One more important bug found (or should I say confirmed). Blameless already found this and mentioned earlier, I just want to make sure it gets passed on to Gigabyte.
The highest tRC value in the UEFI BIOS that can be manually set for memory is 32, however most of the time higher values than this are needed (all of the recent memory that I used that exceeds 1600MHz runs best with tRC 33 and higher, with my 2133MHz kit requiring tRC 38).
@Sin0822 - Please let me know if you can pass this on as well.

I also thought of somthing else. Try to mess with your windows performance settings, as some users have reported in the past, odd things happening, like locked multipliers and such.


tRC is a combination of two other timings. I forget which ATM, but if you set those correctly, then just leave tRC on auto.

Why would he get a X79-UD5 instead of the X79S-UP5?
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post #72 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

I also thought of somthing else. Try to mess with your windows performance settings, as some users have reported in the past, odd things happening, like locked multipliers and such.
Believe me I did, it was one of the first things that I checked wink.gif I do wish it was that simple...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

tRC is a combination of two other timings. I forget which ATM, but if you set those correctly, then just leave tRC on auto.
Hm, I always only manipulated tRC directly. I do know though that row cycle time (tRC) was critical to being able to run 24GB of memory on X58 for instance, and in general when trying push higher memory speeds/overclocking memory. It is also important when pushing for higher memory benchmark scores. Overall, direct control of row cycle time is pretty critical IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

Why would he get a X79-UD5 instead of the X79S-UP5?
It's very unlikely that he is getting a GA-X79S-UP5-WIFI for $131. Usually too good to be true is, well, not true. Realistically, $131 is most likely below the actual cost of getting the board to the market. Also, if you clicked on the Amazon link in his post, the price is over $360.
Edited by dejanh - 11/5/12 at 12:22pm
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post #73 of 367
Thread Starter 
tRC= tRAS + tRP so if you just modify those, then it will take.

I had asked the BIOS engineer about this for Z77, he said that setting was added, but to just leave it on auto and manipulate the other two, as they really have much more to do with it.
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post #74 of 367
I'm at an impasse with Gigabyte tech support, their last response was:

Unfortunately testing in our lab did not encounter such issue, you can try replacing either one of the 2 first to test the results or both.

They are saying I should RMA my board and/or CPU.

I've already told them the CPU works fine in other boards, and they have to, by now, realize that my issues are probably firmware related.

I really don't want to dismantle my entire system, spend 20 dollars mailing them my board, so they can keep it for two weeks, come to the conclusion that nothing is wrong, and mail it back to me in possibly worse shape.

Not happy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

tRC is a combination of two other timings. I forget which ATM, but if you set those correctly, then just leave tRC on auto.

tRC is normally calculated as minimally tRP + tRAS.

This does not by any means imply that these are always ideal. My memory setup needs a tRC of closer to tRP + tRAS + 6-10, or even higher, to be fully stable with two DIMMs per channel.

All of my prior DDR3 boards allow for manual adjustment of tRC, and the lack of this on the UP5 is seriously inhibiting my memory OCing. I can clock my memory higher on my i7 970 (a mediocre sample) + X58A-UD5, which is totally backwards.

Indeed, memory tweaking options in general are positively anemic relative to what I was used to with my older Gigabyte boards.
Edited by Blameless - 11/5/12 at 12:31pm
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post #75 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

tRC= tRAS + tRP so if you just modify those, then it will take.
I had asked the BIOS engineer about this for Z77, he said that setting was added, but to just leave it on auto and manipulate the other two, as they really have much more to do with it.
I think that this is not quite correct, or rather it does not capture the full picture. The formula is actually tRC >= tRAS + tRP and not tRC = tRAS + tRP. Being able to set tRC separately to a value higher than the sum of tRAS + tRP is critical to stability in some combinations. You also do not always have to set the tRAS and/or tRP to higher values to be stable when the tRC is increased. That's the critical distinction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

I'm at an impasse with Gigabyte tech support, their last response was:
Unfortunately testing in our lab did not encounter such issue, you can try replacing either one of the 2 first to test the results or both.
They are saying I should RMA my board and/or CPU.
I've already told them the CPU works fine in other boards, and they have to, by now, realize that my issues are probably firmware related.
I really don't want to dismantle my entire system, spend 20 dollars mailing them my board, so they can keep it for two weeks, come to the conclusion that nothing is wrong, and mail it back to me in possibly worse shape.
Not happy.
tRC is normally calculated as minimally tRP + tRAS.
This does not by any means imply that these are always ideal. My memory setup needs a tRC of closer to tRP + tRAS + 6-10, or even higher, to be fully stable with two DIMMs per channel.
All of my prior DDR3 boards allow for manual adjustment of tRC, and the lack of this on the UP5 is seriously inhibiting my memory OCing. I can clock my memory higher on my i7 970 (a mediocre sample) + X58A-UD5, which is totally backwards.
Indeed, memory tweaking options in general are positively anemic relative to what I was used to with my older Gigabyte boards.
Ninja'd wink.gif As for the rest, that is not good to hear at all. Would they like to have us record a video and send it in because I can...hell, maybe I can even get another CPU and test with it to prove a point. I've also already tested the CPU in another board and it has no issues, which means that it's not the CPU. It's also not the board honestly. There is physically nothing wrong with it, it's a board that was picked out at random from the same pile where other users picked out their boards, 100's of KMs apart which means that they are not even part of the same shipment (your board and my board) and most likely not even from the same run (can we compare serial #s by the way over PM just to confirm this?). It is a firmware issue, guaranteed 100%.
Edited by dejanh - 11/5/12 at 12:36pm
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post #76 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

tRC= tRAS + tRP so if you just modify those, then it will take.
I had asked the BIOS engineer about this for Z77, he said that setting was added, but to just leave it on auto and manipulate the other two, as they really have much more to do with it.

At DDR3-1700ish my memory likes TRP of 8 with a tRAS of 24, and a tRP of 40. If I want to move to DDR3-2133 I need 9 + 27 + 50 ish.

Increasing either tRP or tRAS to get tRC up has a much greater reduction of performance, and less of an improvement on stability than adjusting tRC directly.

For example tRP of 8 + tRAS of 32 (to force tRP to 40), is both modestly slower, and significantly less stable than tRP 8 + tRAS 24 + tRC 40.
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post #77 of 367
Thread Starter 
I understand, timings change, as in their availbity from platform to platform. Can you go through the R4E UEFI for instance, and show me tRC?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1186959/rampage-iv-extreme-uefi-guide-for-overclocking
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post #78 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

I understand, timings change, as in their availbity from platform to platform. Can you go through the R4E UEFI for instance, and show me tRC?
http://www.overclock.net/t/1186959/rampage-iv-extreme-uefi-guide-for-overclocking
I'm not sure what you are asking/wanting to prove? tRC setting still exists on X79... http://kingpincooling.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1851

It's a perfectly legitimate timing that exists on this board too, it just happens to not be adjustable over 32 which is a silly and completely artificial limitation. All that's required to fix it is to open up higher values and be able to set them in the registers. It's not rocket science smile.gif

I'm all for understanding and troubleshooting, when it is necessary. In this case it should be like "Oh, our tRC does not work? Cool, thanks for reporting, here's an updated version where it works." - Done. thumb.gif
Edited by dejanh - 11/5/12 at 1:23pm
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post #79 of 367
Thread Starter 
Then why doesn't ASUS have it?

That is my question, they are all about memory overclocking, yet they forgot tRC? That is what i am pointing out.
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post #80 of 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post

Then why doesn't ASUS have it?

That is my question, they are all about memory overclocking, yet they forgot tRC? That is what i am pointing out.


??


tRC = tRAS + tRP
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