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post #31 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm84 View Post

Calm down with the fanboy-ism.
We're not talking about the CoD games in general here, we're talking about how competitive play will be made much harder with no dedicated servers.
Sorry clearly im in rage mode, because this happens with every cod release for the last couple of years. Same topic arise same arguments take place, yet very little changes which is just the lack of "care" from the developers and publisher.

The point I am trying to make is the features that the community is crying over mean nothing because the Core mechanics of the games just haven't translated well the pc which makes competition worthless. So having dedicated servers where community can fine tweak settings for rounds, score just are pointless. We just end up what we got Blackops 1 (24/7 nuketown and other issues I posted above.) As @zephik posted this will Just be a PUB stomp game then why are we up in arms because we can't admin options? We clearly know Mod tools can't happen because developer/publisher believes it will conflict with there business plan. So we need to quit making the argument that says "oh no mods no maps".

I think having them controlling all aspects of servers isn't bad, long as they provide the community the options to prevent troll, by a flexible and intuitive KICK System in the game. Voting MAPs has already been in the game so you can still have your 24/7 server if the player lobbyist really want it. I think if we can accept certain things and remove the PC elitist feature list we are use to having you can see the Light.

@zephik , the quote you have from treyarch caring for competition it isnt for the pc community. Its for there millions on consoles. They have already showcased there features on live stream with tournament already. Not single thing was pointed towards the pc community. Even when they don't say "this is only for xbox 360 first then ps3 2nd" its what they mean. They just don't want to hurt your feelings. See this is what happens when the pc Elites cry about silly things and not hit nail on main points. Its super frustrating tbh.
Edited by Lavitz - 10/3/12 at 12:04pm
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post #32 of 45
Well now people will just pirate it for the single player story and forget the multiplayer. A business model that screws yourself out of money by encouraging pirating.... good job! thumb.gif


BTW I purchased 4 copies of the original blackops to have it available to people that came over to my house and wanted to game. I won't buy BO2 unless we see private servers available. I was a fair admin that only kicked obvious hackers walling the crap out of everybody. Now this problem will most likely go unchecked now. mad.gif
post #33 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavitz View Post

I think having them controlling all aspects of servers isn't bad, long as they provide the community the options to prevent troll, by a flexible and intuitive KICK System in the game. Voting MAPs has already been in the game so you can still have your 24/7 server if the player lobbyist really want it. I think if we can accept certain things and remove the PC elitist feature list we are use to having you can see the Light.
@zephik , the quote you have from treyarch caring for competition it isnt for the pc community. Its for there millions on consoles. They have already showcased there features on live stream with tournament already. Not single thing was pointed towards the pc community. Even when they don't say "this is only for xbox 360 first then ps3 2nd" its what they mean. They just don't want to hurt your feelings. See this is what happens when the pc Elites cry about silly things and not hit nail on main points. Its super frustrating tbh.
Having a developer control all aspects of the sever and not allowing players to rent their own game servers is a huge NO NO when it comes to competitive play. As I repeat again, I am speaking from the perspective of a player who seeks interest in competiting. I don't care about games just for fun, I play to compete in leagues such as CEVO, ESEA, ESL and so forth not to "pub stomp."

Even if you're pub stomping, community servers are VERY important. When people pub stomp they tend to usually go to the same server and favorite it because people are constantly coming back to that server over and over. Why? Because it has a community or because they have reputable admins. If there's a cheater in the pub, you can't even vote kick them out. Treyarch's justification is that you can player report them... so what? There is no control from the players. Treyarch should just purely focus on giving players the BEST game experience (as mentioned before there are problems with gameplay and so forth) and balance and leave the server side of things to the players. It also creates profit for game server companies who wish to offer servers for their games.

Treyarch goes on and on about making BO2 a game for eSports but yet it shows absolutely no signs of that on the PC aspect (they never specified what platform they're making it for, but since this wasn't specified, it is GENERALIZED). For consoles? It might with cod casting, but on PC we've had that for a LONG time... TwitchTV, Own3DTV and so forth. This is nothing new for PCs; this is simply Call of Duty being Call of Duty and giving PC players the backpeddle once again because they don't really care about the PC community and what WE want. They try and unify everything when "what works on consoles" do not work on PC.

Call of Duty is on a huge decline as of right now (compared to their previous titles) and they need to step it up with improving relations with PC players because this is unacceptable, especially with the competitive scene of CoD (which is pretty much dead as of right now // and before any console players quote me on this... i am speaking PURELY on PC side, I don't care about consoles... competitive play on consoles i have absolutely no interest in this at all).

A developer having control of their game was never a thing when it came to PCs. It was about the community and where they bring creative and innovative ideas to the developer's game. It is proven that is a very successful tactic and it is being stripped apart from us with the exception of certain game developers such as Valve and Blizzard which is why they have such strong titles.

Warcraft III: DotA revamped the gaming community. It made LoL, HoN and then DOTA2 (2 out of 3 are VERY popular titles including the DotA All Stars Mod)
CS: GunGame (even in COD now), Climbing Maps, Natural Selection, Zombie Panic, etc etc etc.
ARMA II: DayZ the Mod -> WarZ
... you get my point.
Edited by zephiK - 10/3/12 at 2:17pm
post #34 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by zephiK View Post

Having a developer control all aspects of the sever and not allowing players to rent their own game servers is a huge NO NO when it comes to competitive play. As I repeat again, I am speaking from the perspective of a player who seeks interest in competiting. I don't care about games just for fun, I play to compete in leagues such as CEVO, ESEA, ESL and so forth not to "pub stomp."
Even if you're pub stomping, community servers are VERY important. When people pub stomp they tend to usually go to the same server and favorite it because people are constantly coming back to that server over and over. Why? Because it has a community or because they have reputable admins. If there's a cheater in the pub, you can't even vote kick them out. Treyarch's justification is that you can player report them... so what? There is no control from the players. Treyarch should just purely focus on giving players the BEST game experience (as mentioned before there are problems with gameplay and so forth) and balance and leave the server side of things to the players. It also creates profit for game server companies who wish to offer servers for their games.
Treyarch goes on and on about making BO2 a game for eSports but yet it shows absolutely no signs of that on the PC aspect (they never specified what platform they're making it for, but since this wasn't specified, it is GENERALIZED). For consoles? It might with cod casting, but on PC we've had that for a LONG time... TwitchTV, Own3DTV and so forth. This is nothing new for PCs; this is simply Call of Duty being Call of Duty and giving PC players the backpeddle once again because they don't really care about the PC community and what WE want. They try and unify everything when "what works on consoles" do not work on PC.
Call of Duty is on a huge decline as of right now (compared to their previous titles) and they need to step it up with improving relations with PC players because this is unacceptable, especially with the competitive scene of CoD (which is pretty much dead as of right now // and before any console players quote me on this... i am speaking PURELY on PC side, I don't care about consoles... competitive play on consoles i have absolutely no interest in this at all).
A developer having control of their game was never a thing when it came to PCs. It was about the community and where they bring creative and innovative ideas to the developer's game. It is proven that is a very successful tactic and it is being stripped apart from us with the exception of certain game developers such as Valve and Blizzard which is why they have such strong titles.
Warcraft III: DotA revamped the gaming community. It made LoL, HoN and then DOTA2 (2 out of 3 are VERY popular titles including the DotA All Stars Mod)
CS: GunGame (even in COD now), Climbing Maps, Natural Selection, Zombie Panic, etc etc etc.
ARMA II: DayZ the Mod -> WarZ
... you get my point.
I think your failing to understand how bad cod is broken and why previous cods weren't successful when it come to picking the game up for Competition. Not being dedicated servers available to the public is not first on List as to why Cod will not be competitive again. I hope it becomes competitive but GL because this newspost is not what is really holding cod from being competitive, and if you think other wise you are wrong, either you realize it now 3 months later like the cod competitive community normal does.
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post #35 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven Dizzle View Post

Call me crazy, but for THIS particular series (Call of Duty), I have to support private dedicated servers. Why? Cause You go play anything post-WAW and see nothing but servers with IDIOT rules. "Tactical crouch" being among the worst. It's REALLY hard to play when any server in your ping range is rocking some stupid rule like crouch only, no melee, no shotguns, or worse yet, an admin who kicks when you kill him.

BWAHAHAHA!! Tactical Crouching! HAHAHA WHAT THE _____??!?!?!?!

wow.......
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post #36 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavitz View Post

I think your failing to understand how bad cod is broken and why previous cods weren't successful when it come to picking the game up for Competition. Not being dedicated servers available to the public is not first on List as to why Cod will not be competitive again. I hope it becomes competitive but GL because this newspost is not what is really holding cod from being competitive, and if you think other wise you are wrong, either you realize it now 3 months later like the cod competitive community normal does.
Previous cods weren't successful? Are you joking me? The last competitive CoD game was CoD4, CoD2 and CoD1 were very competitive. After the release of CoD5 (WAW) and CoD6 (MW2) the game gone downhill from there and competition didn't strive at all. The most competition that came out of the newer ones were probably Black Ops 1 and had support until the game died out due to gameplay errors (walking ingame doesnt make you silent, your keys jingle so you are NEVER purely quiet + day 1 release.. bomb sound wasn't even there, it was but it was REALLY silent and difficult to hear)

I never said dedicated servers to the public is the #1 reason. I said not allowing to RENT dedicated servers is one of the problems that will not make the game to be competitive. Custom matches on BO2 will be Peer-2-Peer (meaning MW2 style; a HOST has to make the game -- if you want to play on dedicated servers you need to use the rules specified by treyarch and are not allowed to modify bomb timer, score limit, round timer, and so forth --- meaning that competition will be VERY difficult to do because leagues cannot make their own rules and players will not agree to Treyarch's standardized settings e.g. first to 4 wins the game? umm... no that isn't competitive to watch a match that lasts for 10 minutes).

Don't speak unless you really know what you're talking about. I have competed in Call of Duty, you have not. I'm personally speaking from experience and the CoD community (competitive part of it not the pubbing part of it) speaks highly low of Call of Duty.

What determines a game to be competitive is to have the community to back up the developer's game. It is a two way street, the developer has to talk with the gamers (the ones competiting.. not pub) to meet on a half-way level to make both sides happy. It has to have LAN support with major LAN events backing up the game (such as MLG, DreamHack, WCG, etc) and again as I repeat.. this is from the PC perspective, not consoles. MLG had Call of Duty for consoles.

In order for a game to be competition YOU HAVE TO HAVE RENTED dedicated servers allowing players to change the settings of the game. It is a first-person shooter, you need to have clear registeration for shots to be accurate, servers and latency plays a huge part of that and having custom match servers hosted on someone's internet connection isn't acceptable for competition. It's like saying basketball, you cant play it in a gym, you have to play it in your backyard for competition... no. Dedicated servers on custom matches is an ABSOLUTE NECESSITY.

As I mentioned before, treyarch should focus on making the game better. Server rules and all that, leave it to the community to determine it. I don't see valve locking servers down and telling that the game needs to be first to 16 or whatever, the community determines it and first to 16 became the new standard.
Edited by zephiK - 10/3/12 at 4:48pm
post #37 of 45
Thread Starter 

Hey guys,
thanks for all the comments and points made, most of them being true and thought out but could we keep this just to facts? There is absolutely no point to be arguing, just state what you think and a fact to back it up and don't get fired up when someone else has a different view. smile.gif

Edit: I sound like my mother.

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post #38 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by zephiK View Post

Previous cods weren't successful? Are you joking me? The last competitive CoD game was CoD4, CoD2 and CoD1 were very competitive. After the release of CoD5 (WAW) and CoD6 (MW2) the game gone downhill from there and competition didn't strive at all. The most competition that came out of the newer ones were probably Black Ops 1 and had support until the game died out due to gameplay errors (walking ingame doesnt make you silent, your keys jingle so you are NEVER purely quiet + day 1 release.. bomb sound wasn't even there, it was but it was REALLY silent and difficult to hear)
I never said dedicated servers to the public is the #1 reason. I said not allowing to RENT dedicated servers is one of the problems that will not make the game to be competitive. Custom matches on BO2 will be Peer-2-Peer (meaning MW2 style; a HOST has to make the game -- if you want to play on dedicated servers you need to use the rules specified by treyarch and are not allowed to modify bomb timer, score limit, round timer, and so forth --- meaning that competition will be VERY difficult to do because leagues cannot make their own rules and players will not agree to Treyarch's standardized settings e.g. first to 4 wins the game? umm... no that isn't competitive to watch a match that lasts for 10 minutes).
Don't speak unless you really know what you're talking about. I have competed in Call of Duty, you have not. I'm personally speaking from experience and the CoD community (competitive part of it not the pubbing part of it) speaks highly low of Call of Duty.
What determines a game to be competitive is to have the community to back up the developer's game. It is a two way street, the developer has to talk with the gamers (the ones competiting.. not pub) to meet on a half-way level to make both sides happy. It has to have LAN support with major LAN events backing up the game (such as MLG, DreamHack, WCG, etc) and again as I repeat.. this is from the PC perspective, not consoles. MLG had Call of Duty for consoles.
In order for a game to be competition YOU HAVE TO HAVE RENTED dedicated servers allowing players to change the settings of the game. It is a first-person shooter, you need to have clear registeration for shots to be accurate, servers and latency plays a huge part of that and having custom match servers hosted on someone's internet connection isn't acceptable for competition. It's like saying basketball, you cant play it in a gym, you have to play it in your backyard for competition... no. Dedicated servers on custom matches is an ABSOLUTE NECESSITY.
As I mentioned before, treyarch should focus on making the game better. Server rules and all that, leave it to the community to determine it. I don't see valve locking servers down and telling that the game needs to be first to 16 or whatever, the community determines it and first to 16 became the new standard.
I think you believe believe i haven't competed in cod and I unaware of the success LOL, dota, sc 2 has had in competition. I have you know im quite involved in the scene since basically all cod 4 competitive players have been forced to join moba competitive and other games because FPS competitive scene continues to be dead. Also when i said previous games I did mean mw 2, waw,blops and mw 3. The game where the pc community didn't mean anything to developers or publisher, and this is the case again. There will be no community backing for blops 2 on the pc because the issues holding the game back are core gameplay issues and the whistles and features come along with the game. I am out! can't argue against you because I am sure you have valid points but they are not thread related and you are just beating the same horse that been kicked one too many times.
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post #39 of 45
I enjoy crouching servers and yes 20 or more players on a map is too much for me. The great thing about dedicated servers and clans is you can make the game into your style of playing and play others that's are like minded. Even if your not serious competive player you still have preferences and I believe customer should be right about how they like to play the game. With all the servers with the same rules and maps it would be boring. Plus I like mixing it up on different servers and different rules. Me and my friends will do all snipers for a few rounds then maybe. Bolt or knifing. It makes it funner. Like above I really wish it was like it use to be. The whole year before COD4 came out I remeber playing COD2 on some servers and there was litteraly new maps every single day. Did I have to pay $14.99, no I didn't it was quite fun. I Remeber some days seeing 4 new maps in a row I had never played before. I probably played about 600 different COD2 maps and only payed for the game once, kids growing up at this time would never believe that there ever was such a thing.
 
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post #40 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNOE View Post

I enjoy crouching servers and yes 20 or more players on a map is too much for me. The great thing about dedicated servers and clans is you can make the game into your style of playing and play others that's are like minded. Even if your not serious competive player you still have preferences and I believe customer should be right about how they like to play the game. With all the servers with the same rules and maps it would be boring. Plus I like mixing it up on different servers and different rules. Me and my friends will do all snipers for a few rounds then maybe. Bolt or knifing. It makes it funner. Like above I really wish it was like it use to be. The whole year before COD4 came out I remeber playing COD2 on some servers and there was litteraly new maps every single day. Did I have to pay $14.99, no I didn't it was quite fun. I Remeber some days seeing 4 new maps in a row I had never played before. I probably played about 600 different COD2 maps and only payed for the game once, kids growing up at this time would never believe that there ever was such a thing.

I agree.. I played FPS games at a very young age beginning with Counter-Strike. Dedicated Servers and DLC in today's state compared to how it was in the old days.
How it is now:
Games are a lot more closed. Dedicated servers (its either no dedicated servers or locked), no mod tools, no mapping tools. Treyarch justifies not providing dedicated server files because of,
Quote:
Due to this new system every public match and League Play will be done via matchmaking lobbies that run on dedicated servers. There will be no way to rent servers and the server files won't be released - this is to protect the game from hacking and other kinds of cheating. Treyarch will be providing a huge number of servers around the globe for free.
Oh really? .. Valve released server files out publically. I don't see much cheating in that game? If there is, then there are server admins that can ban/kick them; whereas, in BO2 you can't even vote kick them out. There will be no community within that server, people will bounce between random servers. Cheating as in rank cheating? I play a FPS to frag, not to level up as if it was a MMO. Thank you very much.
Actually, I don't really even care if Treyarch releases the files or not but they should AT LEAST have to the very least certified companies to give the files to (such as in BO1, there was GameServers.com) and allow players to rent their own servers.

How it was before:
Dedicated server files for everybody.
Mod tools.
Mapping tools.
Free DLC.
... there was just more openiness between the community and the community is able to make mods for games and thats what PC gaming is really about. the community making the game what it is due to user contributions.... not a locked down game because games on console is not the same as gaming on the PC.

People who weren't around during those days clearly missed out when gaming on the PC was so good and we take everything for granted.
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